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Yamakasi Catleap Q270 (100hz guaranteed). - Page 105  

Poll Results: Would you be interested in buying a Yamakasi Catleap Q270 (100hz guarenteed)

 
  • 87% (726)
    Yes
  • 2% (18)
    No
  • 10% (88)
    Maybe
832 Total Votes  
post #1041 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by tael View Post

Thanks for the update bQvle!
I've been following the thread pretty closely for about 20-30 pages now(A LOT of downtime at work hehe) and the claims to 120hz or better seem very convincing to me.
Regarding the 'warming up' part, so you can cold boot and be at 100hz with no problems? How long of a warm up does it seem to take to bring it to 120hz?
I typically leave my computer on 24/7, but power the monitors off when I leave. Would I be needing to warm up the monitor to bring it over 100hz when I get back then?
Would I have issues leaving everything set to 120hz, turning the monitor off and coming back 12 hours later?
I'll be running off 570's SLI for a few months, so I suppose it won't matter for a while.


I think it'll cold boot into around 108mhz without a problem. It'll take it, depending on how warm your operating environment is already, 10-30 minutes to be ready for up to around 125hz. I've had some people tell me their monitor boots into 119hz without any issues. Might be different cables. Slight differences in each individual monitor. I'm not sure. For me it's not a huge issue as when I ran it at 105hz on AMD (highest it'll go on those cards) I didn't worry about it. And with the 100hz limit on my gtx 680 sli setup, I'm always at 100hz anyway. The only way to get up to 120hz (or up to 135hz as I've hit, just for fun) is if you have a single gtx 680 card. It is the only card capable of doing it.

Edit: And I've just realized after some testing that the warmer it is, the more stable the refresh rate is. Previously when I set a 124hz refresh rate I got anywhere from 119hz to 122hz. Right now It's doing between 121.6hz to 124hz.
Edited by HyperMatrix - 4/17/12 at 8:11am
post #1042 of 1131
Have you noticed any response time lag with these monitors?

Coming from a S23A750D, I'm afraid that the lag is going to drive me nuts.

60-> 100hz is a 68% improvement, but if we think of it as the glass being half empty, it's also true that we're missing out on 32% of potential improvement over 60hz biggrin.gif
post #1043 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smykster View Post

Okay, as per Ken's request once again, I'll clear up some misinformation regarding cable bandwidth and monitor refresh rates:
My message to Ken:
KK, did some number crunching for you. The effective data rate of a dual link DVI cable is 7.92 Gbits/second. With this in mind, the highest resolution dual link DVI supports at 120hz is 1920*1200. How do we know this? 1920*1200 = 2,304,000 pixels, 2304000 x 120(hz) = 276,480,000 x 24(bit color) = 6,635,520,000 or 6.63 Gbits/sec.
For a resolution of 2560*1440, lets do the math:
2560*1440 = 3,686,400 x 120(hz) = 442,368,000 pixels per second x 24(bit color) = 10,616,832,000 bits per second or 10.6 Gbits/second.
Dual-link DVI effective data rate = 7.92 Gbits/sec
HDMI 1.3/1.4 effective data rate = 8.16 Gbits/sec
DisplayPort 1.0/1.1 effective data rate = 8.64 Gbits/sec
2560*1440 @ 120hz = 10.61=Gbits/sec which is well over all of these.
Displayport 1.2 effective data rate = 17.28 Gbits/sec
HDMI Type B effective data rate = 20.40 Gbits/sec
Those would work with 2560*1440 @ 120hz
From the write up I did, I would hypothesize that the hardware is indeed pumping out 2560*1440 @ 120hz or greater, but the bandwidth is being exceeded and the monitor is is not showing many of the frames. Just like when you're gaming at 120hz yet you have a 60hz monitor, you're missing half the frames the hardware is pumping out.

Again Smykster, it would behoove you to do some additional reading in the Catleap threads (particularly people replying to and refuting your claims) as well as some additional research overall. More than a couple times now people have pointed you to specifications that clearly indicate that Dual-link DVI is *not* limited to simply 2x the bandwidth of single-link. The same way an HDMI 1.3/1.4 (which is electrically single-link DVI) can reach effective data rates around twice that of single-link DVI (since it also does not have a hard 165MHz clock limit) dual-link DVI can also be run at any clock rate that the associated hardware and cables can handle. I get the feeling people are getting a little tired of pointing this out over and over again, so please do some thorough research to convince yourself of this fact.

If you're presuming that the monitor or card is simply frame-dropping at high refresh rates, the logic for that doesn't really pan out. Consider firstly that we have confirmation for sure that the monitors will actually accept and display refresh rates above 60. I have personally tested as high as 90Hz, and confirmed that no frame-dropping occurs; I can also visually perceive a difference between this and 81Hz (the next-lowest setting I tested). We *also* know that HyperMatrix has tested the monitors up to roughly 130Hz; his behaviour at these high refresh rates is consistent with running into sync or bandwidth limitations (glitching, artifacting, etc..) and not with frame dropping (which would likely result in a visually perfect image with hitching, followed by a sudden sync loss as the monitor refuses to accept signals at a certain level). Additionally, it would require that the hardware designers for the chips inside the monitor had introduced frame-dropping behaviour at a refresh rate somewhere around 85Hz or so; considering that *absolutely all* LCDs to implement frame-dropping (which is caused by the scalers) do so at 60Hz, this seems to be pretty unlikely to me. As extra justification, checking the datasheets for the chips used in the monitor (the DVI-LVDS converter and the T-con controller) makes no mention of such a feature.

Your assumptions are based on flawed information, your claims are unfounded and your logic is unsound. All evidence indicates that the monitors work at high refresh rate as assumed, and continue to work all the way up to the point where they start glitching or desync. If you're going to make any more posts about this, please take the time to research the subject before acting like an expert on it.

PS: Also, it would probably be better if we avoid mentioning HDMI Type-B; the standard, for all intents and purposes, does not actually exist and is thus not relevant in any way. Last time I tried to look for a picture of the connectors the only thing I could find were sketches; nobody's actually built anything that conforms to it. As an aside though, the numbers you indicate for the bandwidth of HDMI Type-B (a non-clock limited cable electrically equivalent to DVI dual-link) are probably a lot closer to the actual limits of a dual-link DVI than any other numbers you referenced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sxcerino View Post

Have you noticed any response time lag with these monitors?
Coming from a S23A750D, I'm afraid that the lag is going to drive me nuts.
60-> 100hz is a 68% improvement, but if we think of it as the glass being half empty, it's also true that we're missing out on 32% of potential improvement over 60hz biggrin.gif

The monitors have no scaler, and overall have a very clean path from the graphics card to the panel with no extra delays. They thus have very low input lag already, and higher refresh rates improve the situation even further. If input lag is your concern, these monitors are great performers. Response times however are obviously not as good as TN so ghosting can still occur - but you will get information on screen from your inputs as soon as possible.
Edited by siberx - 4/17/12 at 8:23am
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post #1044 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sxcerino View Post

Have you noticed any response time lag with these monitors?
Coming from a S23A750D, I'm afraid that the lag is going to drive me nuts.
60-> 100hz is a 68% improvement, but if we think of it as the glass being half empty, it's also true that we're missing out on 32% of potential improvement over 60hz biggrin.gif

Or, "Another 20% performance yet to be realized" if it helps to use a smaller number. wink.gif And also not if you consider the 120hz to be a mythical unicorn which isn't supposed to exist at this resolution yet. =D You'd still have a better monitor than 99.99% of people who run resolutions higher than 1080. tongue.gif

I haven't noticed any lag at all, actually. Someone said it was just 8-12ms? The multi was around 25-30ms (roughly) from what I heard I believe.
post #1045 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by siberx View Post

The monitors have no scaler, and overall have a very clean path from the graphics card to the panel with no extra delays. They thus have very low input lag already, and higher refresh rates improve the situation even further. If input lag is your concern, these monitors are great performers. Response times however are obviously not as good as TN so ghosting can still occur - but you will get information on screen from your inputs as soon as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMatrix View Post

Or, "Another 20% performance yet to be realized" if it helps to use a smaller number. wink.gif And also not if you consider the 120hz to be a mythical unicorn which isn't supposed to exist at this resolution yet. =D You'd still have a better monitor than 99.99% of people who run resolutions higher than 1080. tongue.gif
I haven't noticed any lag at all, actually. Someone said it was just 8-12ms? The multi was around 25-30ms (roughly) from what I heard I believe.

Yeah was mainly concerned with the response time as input lag should be non-existent with no OSD and multi input/processing.
The S23A750D has a 2MS response time, I guess I'll have to see them in action and see if the 8+ms response bothers me immensely biggrin.gif

Unicorns are real what are you talking about >:[
post #1046 of 1131
Siberx, the issue is that he is going based off of the 165/165/330 pixel clocks. The 9.9Gbps theoretical max is at 330mhz. At 124hz refresh rate, I'm running a 494mhz pixel clock. If the bandwidth is linear, as it should be, that would mean a roughly 50% increase in bandwidth. Which is what takes us back to the limitation of DVI being the copper cabling, and not the DL-DVI specification itself. So the quality of the cable comes into question. And it matches up well with my experience of being able to hit higher refresh rates after the cable had warmed up which would increase its bandwidth. At the maximum 537mhz pixel clock that I hit, that would give us approximately 16.1Gbps bandwidth. Now, anything at 126hz (15.15Gbps) starts showing slight artifacting/flickering. But at 125hz (15.03Gbps) it is fine. So we could say that, depending on the cable you use, the copper limitation is at around the 15Gbps limit. If you had watched my original OC videos that showed off my OC'ing, I had stated in the video that I didn't understand how this was happening as this resolution/refresh requires 15Gbps but I had read DL-DVI had a limit of around 10Gbps. Now the 9.9Gbps@330mhz link makes sense. Especially when the DVI specifications document clearly states that rates higher than 165mhz per link are allowed, and your only limitation in that regard would be the copper you use.

Case solved. Closed. Win. =D
post #1047 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sxcerino View Post

Yeah was mainly concerned with the response time as input lag should be non-existent with no OSD and multi input/processing.
The S23A750D has a 2MS response time, I guess I'll have to see them in action and see if the 8+ms response bothers me immensely biggrin.gif
Unicorns are real what are you talking about >:[

Input Lag + Response Time are different my friend. This monitor has a 6ms "response time." Input lag is unrelated and TN displays have no advantage in that regard. In fact, if your Samsung had an OSD and scaler, it probably had worse input lag than this monitor does. I also find that upping the refresh rate by 68% mostly negates any advantages TN displays may have had. Don't worry about a thing. I'm an OCD little FPS'ers. I have had absolutely 0 issues with this monitor. No compromise. Only pwn.
post #1048 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMatrix View Post

Siberx, the issue is that he is going based off of the 165/165/330 pixel clocks.
Case solved. Closed. Win. =D

I'm well aware of *how* he's getting confused - but try telling him that wink.gif

This case was solved for me before I ever came anywhere near these threads, but the difficult part seems to be convincing everybody else of that 8)
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post #1049 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMatrix View Post

Input Lag + Response Time are different my friend. This monitor has a 6ms "response time." Input lag is unrelated and TN displays have no advantage in that regard. In fact, if your Samsung had an OSD and scaler, it probably had worse input lag than this monitor does. I also find that upping the refresh rate by 68% mostly negates any advantages TN displays may have had. Don't worry about a thing. I'm an OCD little FPS'ers. I have had absolutely 0 issues with this monitor. No compromise. Only pwn.

Haha yeah, I do realize that response time and input lag are two different things. I was worried about response time tongue.gif

Input lag should be an improvement over my samsung smile.gif

Now I'm just anxiously waiting for 680GTX to restock and the monitors to be manufactured smile.gif
post #1050 of 1131
Great to hear about the update! Hopefully I will have the cash by mid may or the end. How many are they making again? I hope we don't run out too quickly.
    
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