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Yamakasi Catleap Q270 (100hz guaranteed). - Page 45  

Poll Results: Would you be interested in buying a Yamakasi Catleap Q270 (100hz guarenteed)

 
  • 87% (726)
    Yes
  • 2% (18)
    No
  • 10% (88)
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832 Total Votes  
post #441 of 1131
max brightness is 3 times what human eye can take for a comfortable viewing redface.gif
post #442 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by siberx View Post

And, as you say - there's absolutely nothing wrong with PWM dimming; in fact that's probably what the monitors are using already. Just make sure the frequency is more than high enough wink.gif

You'll have to hit an absolute minimum of 2kHz by my estimate then (for me to use it). Most LED controllers use only 90-420Hz. Both the 27" mac and the HP 27" don't flicker. I used to get migraines almost every day programming, but one really bad display tipped me off to what was happening. The higher frequency flicker is not consciously visible if my eyes are not moving, but the effects are still there. If I'm reading text then 360Hz flicker is easily visible to me. Started using my displays at full brightness and calibrating to bring it back down, and I have no problems anymore.

If these do use PWM I'll probably buy a filter to put between the light and LCD to bring the brightness down. Yeah it will suck power using it like this, but I don't have any other alternative yet.
post #443 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesK View Post

If there is a way to not have flickering with PWM, then that's good to hear. I bought a shimian and I can't use it, my eyes hurts and it happens with all the led monitor I tested, which were all PWM regulated.
On the shimian the PWM frequency is 160 hz, I suppose it is similar on the catleap (I believe this is very low).
I was wondering If it is possible to make a current regulation board and use it to directly power the leds. What's your opinion on this, can it work ?

It should be entirely possible to design a standalone LED driver to replace the one included in the Shimian or Catleap or whatever, and to run it at whatever frequency you want. The LEDs in the backlight are connectorized, so you just unplug them from the existing driver board and hook your own unit and power supply up. On my custom keyboard I use PWM to dim the LEDs and I use an effective frequency of 250Hz (that's the highest I can do, doing PWM in software and multiplexing 8 sets of LEDs) and I can still notice the flicker slightly when moving my eyes. You'd probably want something at least around 500Hz, ideally 1000Hz or so. I'm not sure what the Catleap runs at by default (I could put the drivers on my scope and find out at some point) but I haven't found their backlights to be particularly distracting (and like I said, I still see my keyboard's flicker at 250Hz and low refresh CRTs were *terribly* uncomfortable back in the day). If cirthix is going to the trouble of laying out a new board, there's no reason he couldn't (or somebody else could do a standalone LED driver design) set a higher frequency for the driver.
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post #444 of 1131
Will these glossy screens be similar to removing the AG coating from a "normal" screen (as in it will be very fragile and prone to scratching and microfractures) or will it be more similar to "glossy" screens found stateside which are tough and durable?

That is pretty much the deciding factor for me.
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post #445 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Will these glossy screens be similar to removing the AG coating from a "normal" screen (as in it will be very fragile and prone to scratching and microfractures) or will it be more similar to "glossy" screens found stateside which are tough and durable?
That is pretty much the deciding factor for me.

As I understand it, these are with the glass panel protecting the lcd panel.
You can have a normal or tempered one.
This thread is about the one with normal, tempered often has dustrests inside.
post #446 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosta88 View Post

As I understand it, these are with the glass panel protecting the lcd panel.
You can have a normal or tempered one.
This thread is about the one with normal, tempered often has dustrests inside.

I don't quite understand, can you elaborate?
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post #447 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesK View Post

If there is a way to not have flickering with PWM, then that's good to hear. I bought a shimian and I can't use it, my eyes hurts and it happens with all the led monitor I tested, which were all PWM regulated.
On the shimian the PWM frequency is 160 hz, I suppose it is similar on the catleap (I believe this is very low).
I was wondering If it is possible to make a current regulation board and use it to directly power the leds. What's your opinion on this, can it work ?

I just did some testing of the PWM dimming on the Catleap; I was too lazy to pull the thing apart and put my scope on the driver outputs, so I just did what everybody else testing this does and took some pictures of a thin white line at minimum brightness: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
led_flicker_test.jpg

The exposure time on that shot is 1/30s, meaning we get an LED cycle every 1/150 of a second - indicating a PWM frequency of 150Hz. The interesting thing however, is that even at minimum brightness I do not notice any flicker or multiple images; I even tried waving my hand in front of the monitor on minimum brightness (which on my work LED-backlit panel causes *very* visible multiple images) and things looked pretty smooth overall. My suspicion is that they're either filtering the output some to flatten out the dips (so that the total brightness change from "on" to "off" is minimized) or that even at minimum brightness the duty cycle for the backlight is still fairly high (50% or so), resulting in drastically reduced flicker. Take from it what you will - but despite the low frequency and a high sensitivity to flicker in general (a CRT doesn't start looking acceptably even until 85Hz or so, and they have slow phosphors helping them) the Catleap doesn't bother me at all.

EDIT:
Here's a better shot, this one came out at 1/25s so the 6 lines here comes out about the same for frequency: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
led_flicker_test_2.jpg

This pic is sharper, so it seems to corroborate the fact that the duty cycle is not that low even at minimum brightness.

EDIT 2:
Instead of pulling the monitor apart, I happened to have a photodiode lying around on my desk; I wired it up and probed its output on my scope when pointed at the Catleap with a white screen, minimum brightness: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
150hz_monitor.jpg

Compared to my keyboard's backlighting at minimum brightness, which is technically operating at a 1/64th (1.6%) duty cycle: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
250hz_keyboard.jpg

Note the shape differences (time scales are the same, voltage are not); my keyboard (which uses no filtering or fancy business) shows a sharp and immediate turn on for the LEDs. The long tail is due to slow turn-off on the driving transistors, so ignore that. The Catleap, however, produces what's practically a sine wave for the output that doesn't appear to cleanly "bottom out" at zero brightness anywhere. Filtering, perhaps? Either way, I find it looks pretty good visually with whatever they're doing.
Edited by siberx - 3/28/12 at 9:29pm
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post #448 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Will these glossy screens be similar to removing the AG coating from a "normal" screen (as in it will be very fragile and prone to scratching and microfractures) or will it be more similar to "glossy" screens found stateside which are tough and durable?
That is pretty much the deciding factor for me.


Not sure on the fragility of these screens. I am being kind of rough with my red-headed-step-child-non-OC monitor (sorry I do love me some OC monitor better.)  I haven't noticed that it is any more fragile or prone to issues over the 2 samsungs I have right above it (my OC monitor is the lower one of the two.)

 

900x900px-LL-3599cc40_IMG_1346.jpeg


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosta88 View Post


As I understand it, these are with the glass panel protecting the lcd panel.
You can have a normal or tempered one.
This thread is about the one with normal, tempered often has dustrests inside.

 

Only two models out of five have tempered glass.  Most people have a non-tempered glass model meaning there is nothing protecting the screen (normal monitor set up.)  This thread is about getting a 2B version spec'd and built for us so we can OC the boards.  I doubt it will have tempered glass since that drives up the cost a bit.

   
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post #449 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScribbyDaGreat View Post



Not sure on the fragility of these screens. I am being kind of rough with my red-headed-step-child-non-OC monitor (sorry I do love me some OC monitor better.)  I haven't noticed that it is any more fragile or prone to issues over the 2 samsungs I have right above it (my OC monitor is the lower one of the two.)

600x450px-LL-c8addd1c_900x900px-LL-3599cc40_IMG_1346.jpeg

Only two models out of five have tempered glass.  Most people have a non-tempered glass model meaning there is nothing protecting the screen (normal monitor set up.)  This thread is about getting a 2B version spec'd and built for us so we can OC the boards.  I doubt it will have tempered glass since that drives up the cost a bit.

Well that's a bit of a bummer.

I'm super careful with my stuff... but my family is not in the slightest. It wouldn't be at all unlikely for someone to come along and throw something at my screen, stab at it with their fingers trying to point at something, or try to wipe/clean it with an abrasive cloth.

Looks like I'll have to pass on this particular deal for now and hope high speed high resolution IPS displays crop up from some other source some time soon. frown.gif
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CM690 II Passive bookshelfspeakers + amp. 
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post #450 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post


Well that's a bit of a bummer.
I'm super careful with my stuff... but my family is not in the slightest. It wouldn't be at all unlikely for someone to come along and throw something at my screen, stab at it with their fingers trying to point at something, or try to wipe/clean it with an abrasive cloth.
Looks like I'll have to pass on this particular deal for now and hope high speed high resolution IPS displays crop up from some other source some time soon. frown.gif


Or keep your fingers crossed that I source the OC PCBs, buy a tempered version now and wait a little bit!

 

 

   
The Cavern
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5-2500k asus p8p67 deluxe EVGA GeForce GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper 2 3072 EVGA GeForce GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper 2 3072 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator 8 gig ocz agility 240 Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
blu ray TONS - See Build Log windows 7 64 bit ultimate Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D g15 corsair 1200ax 
CaseMouse
mountain mods u2-ufo rat 9 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 860 EVGA P55 FTW gtx 560 gtx 560 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb Intel M4 ssd 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
TONS - See Build Log windows 7 64 bit Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW x 4 Corsair 1000 
Case
antec skeleton 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 860 EVGA P55 FTW EVGA GTX 295 Corsair Dominator 8 gig 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
2 x Western Digital Caviar Blacks 1TB Blu-Ray Corsair H70 Everything else on air 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7, 64  Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D F Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D F Logitech G15 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair 1000 Corsair 800D Logitech G700 
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The Cavern
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5-2500k asus p8p67 deluxe EVGA GeForce GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper 2 3072 EVGA GeForce GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper 2 3072 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator 8 gig ocz agility 240 Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
blu ray TONS - See Build Log windows 7 64 bit ultimate Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D g15 corsair 1200ax 
CaseMouse
mountain mods u2-ufo rat 9 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 860 EVGA P55 FTW gtx 560 gtx 560 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb Western Digital Caviar Black 1 tb Intel M4 ssd 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
TONS - See Build Log windows 7 64 bit Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW x 4 Corsair 1000 
Case
antec skeleton 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 860 EVGA P55 FTW EVGA GTX 295 Corsair Dominator 8 gig 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
2 x Western Digital Caviar Blacks 1TB Blu-Ray Corsair H70 Everything else on air 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7, 64  Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D F Alienware OptX AW2310 23-inch 3D F Logitech G15 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair 1000 Corsair 800D Logitech G700 
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