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My first watercoolin project - Page 2

post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
The reason for the extreme rad's are that I plan to upgrade to top notch GPU's in half a year or so, and is it not so that more rad= more fans = lower RPM and sound?
And no, it's not just for D3 wink.gif D3 is just a good time to begin:D
I also do some 3D rendering, video editing, autoCAD etc. And i love OC'ing biggrin.gif
And when it comes to the HDD cooler my plan is to insulate them, have 4 WD caviar black 2TB discs, noisy as hell....

But how will the gpm be if i choose
Res > Pumps > Rad1 > CPU > Mobo > Rad2 > GPU > HDD> Res?
From what I have heard you will not get the same flow if you have two pumps in series vs two separate loops?
And how would it be if i chose to have the pumps in different parts of the loop?

If I chose to use the MO-RA3 setup, what temps do you think I'd be looking at?
Res > Pumps > Rad > waterblocks > Res?


The $$$ is not really an issue if you were wondering
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigger View Post

The reason for the extreme rad's are that I plan to upgrade to top notch GPU's in half a year or so, and is it not so that more rad= more fans = lower RPM and sound?
And no, it's not just for D3 wink.gif D3 is just a good time to begin:D
I also do some 3D rendering, video editing, autoCAD etc. And i love OC'ing biggrin.gif
And when it comes to the HDD cooler my plan is to insulate them, have 4 WD caviar black 2TB discs, noisy as hell....
But how will the gpm be if i choose
Res > Pumps > Rad1 > CPU > Mobo > Rad2 > GPU > HDD> Res?
From what I have heard you will not get the same flow if you have two pumps in series vs two separate loops?
And how would it be if i chose to have the pumps in different parts of the loop?
If I chose to use the MO-RA3 setup, what temps do you think I'd be looking at?
Res > Pumps > Rad > waterblocks > Res?
The $$$ is not really an issue if you were wondering

Your flow shouldn't be too much of an issue if you are running 2 D5's and the loop doesn't run too long. And yeah the flow will obviously be different if you run 2 pumps serial vs. seperate. If you are running 2 pumps serial in 1 loop, you will probably want one of the dual pump tops by Bitspower, EK or XSPC (I think they have one). If you are running 2 loops, EK has a pump top for that too that allows you to mount 2 different cylindar reservoirs.

Since I prefer to house my rads in the same case, I can't say much about the MORA 3. If money isn't an issue and you have a plan on how to house all these hardware then I think you are good. 2 XSPC 480's or a MORA 3 should dissipate a decent amount of heat. There is only so many radiators you can use til your ambient temp becomes more of a factor and gets in the way.

If money IS REALLY NOT A PROBLEM, you should take a look at FiS's build log and see what you can gather from that smile.gif

http://www.overclock.net/t/1001892/work-log-project-liquid-death-back-on-track-dream-machine-build
    
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post #13 of 27
If money isn't an issue, I've seen a review on Aquacomputers Airplex rads, and they can dissipate 1000w of heat with 1200rpm fans. That's no small feat, however the copper finned rads will go for a hefty 275 USD a piece.
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post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
Well, place is not an issue, I'm currently working on joining two Chieftec Dragon Big Tower, welding them together side by side helmetsmiley.png

Holy s**** FiS's rig is mad! jeeeezz! I think i will wait a while before challenging his build redface.gif

Anywho, I guess I will have to sleep on this one, Rome weren't built in a day rolleyes.gif


Edit: The MO-RA3 rad is the 9x140mm version, not the 9x120mm.
Edited by wigger - 3/21/12 at 3:44pm
post #15 of 27
You should have res to pump order after that it doesnt matter.In 99% of watercooling systems there is no "optimal" component ordering, EXCEPT that which minimizes tight bends and overall tubing length. This is not always true as there can be a significant difference (read: measurable) when dealing with extremely high heat loads, like those found in systems in which one or more components are actively cooled by a TEC. Because of water's high heat capacity, there is very little change in water temperature due to the heat dump from components that may be considered "parasitic" to the loop's most efficient operating conditions. What do I mean by this? In your case, this only really applies to the pump.

Example:

Specific heat of water (c) = 4.186 J/gram-°C

By definition 1 Joule (unit of energy) = 1 Watt-second (unit of power)

therefore, c = 4.186 W-sec/gram-°C

Meaning, if you pump "dumped" a modest 15W of heat into your loop:

Q = cm(ΔT) where Q is the heat added (15W), c is the specific energy of the material "receiving" the heat energy (water), m is the mass of the material, and delta T is the rise in temperature of the material.

Since this would ultimately depend on flow rate (to be given as g/sec, L/hr, gal/min or whatever other units you desire) we are going to simplify our example by assuming your flow rate is 2L/min:

(2L/min)(1 min/60 sec)(1000 g/1L) = ~42 g/sec (1L water = 1000 g by definition)

Q = cm(ΔT) => 15W = (42 g/sec)(4.186 W-sec/g-°C)(ΔT) -> ΔT = 0.08 °C

As you can see, certainly not a lot of temperature rise due to the pump alone. So assuming the water temperature entering the pump was 25°C exactly, this would mean that the outlet temperature from the pump would be 25.08°C. If the CPU (or any other block) was located such that the outlet of the pump directly feed it then the supply temperatures would be 25.08°C! (assuming that your tubing was a perfect insulator)

Try repeating this calculation with higher flow rates (3L/min, 4L/min, etc.) and you will see that in any case there is not much to be gained by sending the water from the pump through the radiator before any cooling block/device. In fact, due to the extremely small water temperature increase from to the pump I'm no so sure you would see ANY difference in radiator outlet temperature (a passive heatsink's ability to reject heat is directly proportional to the difference in temperature between the medium being cooled and the medium providing the cooling, in this case air at ambient).

Finally, since the GPU and CPU block locations are the only other real question, I can only provide you with the same advice. Using the equation above you can calculate the approximate rise in water temperature across the block (I say approximate because Q in the given equation can only be approximated from true processor power consumption since calculations, as provided, would have to assume that 100% of the heat from the processor is transmitted to the block and then to the water, which is untrue...). Then it's just a matter of determining which component you think needs that extra degree or two of cooling to perform best. At this point it's really a matter of preference and/or individual testing (which would require that you test the loop with each block individually installed, to remove the other as a competing variable, and then plotting the overclock results as a function of supply water temperature).

I hope I've at least partially answer your question. If not, here's the bottom line: I believe you will find that there is little to no performance difference to be achieve by ordering components in your loop. Instead, work to minimize flow resistance (smooth tubing bends and as little tubing used as possible). Any optimizations here will allow for maximum flow

p/s: I'm not a pro and just share my 2 cents. I hope I helped you a little bit to get stuff clear. Otherwise, these links might be helpful for you:
http://www.overclock.net/t/226970/updated-water-cooling-essential-threads
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/265776-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky

Goodluck for your watercooling setup! thumb.gif
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
So, I have more or less decided on a MO-RA3 9x140mm in push-pull (18 fans FTW ) biggrin.gif
And the way i plan to control that insane ammount of fans is to use a T-balancer/Bigng, and I will use NB-BlackSilentPRO PK3 fans, BUT, can I use the T-balancers PWM supply?
Anyone know if this will work well?

Gibsy, thanks for your input, it really helped me thumb.gif
Yeah, I will use some time to make all the cables and tubes nice and tidy sneaky.gif
Edited by wigger - 3/24/12 at 11:04am
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigger View Post

So, I have more or less decided on a MO-RA3 9x140mm in push-pull (18 fans FTW ) biggrin.gif
And the way i plan to control that insane ammount of fans is to use a T-balancer/Bigng, and I will use NB-BlackSilentPRO PK3 fans, BUT, can I use the T-balancers PWM supply?
Anyone know if this will work well?
Gibsy, thanks for your input, it really helped me thumb.gif
Yeah, I will use some time to make all the cables and tubes nice and tidy sneaky.gif

If you go with 140mm take a look at Prolimatech`s aluminium Vortex fans. I actually own PK3`s and they are nice, but thos prolimatech ones look tempting.
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post #18 of 27
All in all I think you should really re-think what you are wanting to do with this build. Since money is no option, time should not be either. I would really consider doing a bunch more reading, and more research before you go throwing random parts at the problem.

You are looking at about 2000W of dissipation with just those 2 rads you were planning on, when you are only throwing about 800w of heat at them.

Please tell us what Case you are wanting to use, plus a picture of it if you are "working" on welding 2 decently sized cases together.

And as well, please include what hardware you are wanting to use with the setup.

Example of the format:

CPU
GPU
Motherboard
Ram
PSU
Case
Rads
Pumps
Controllers

I really want to help you out and give some decent advice, but I can barely tell what you are wanting to do aside from spend massive amounts of money on a PC you will use for D3 and "Maybe" AutoCAD/Video Editing/3D Modeling.
Edited by PeteJM - 3/25/12 at 10:08am
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
The case I will use are two Chieftec Dragon Full Tower cigar.gif
I have not been able to start on the casemod yet, since the ship I'm working on are still out at sea, and will be so for a week or more...


And I guess it will be a little bit more than 800 watt,

CPU: AMD FX-8150
GPU: 2x XFX Radeon HD7970
Motherboard: Asus Crosshair V Formula
Ram: Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz 4x8GB
PSU: 1000+watt for cpu, gpu & stuff, and a random silent one for pumps and fans.
Case: 2x Chieftec Dragon Full Tower
Rads: MO-RA3 18x140mm pull-push
Pumps: 2x alphacool VPP655 with EK-D5 dual top
Controllers: T-balancer/BigNG
HDD: Watercool Silentstar HD-Quad, and 4xWD Caviar Black 2TB
Edited by wigger - 3/25/12 at 11:02am
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigger View Post

The case I will use are two Chieftec Dragon Full Tower cigar.gif
I have not been able to start on the casemod yet, since the ship I'm working on are still out at sea, and will be so for a week or more...
And I guess it will be a little bit more than 800 watt,
CPU: AMD FX-8150
GPU: XFX Radeon HD7970
Motherboard: Asus Crosshair V Formula
Ram: Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz 4x8GB
PSU: 1000+watt for cpu, gpu & stuff, and a random silent one for pumps and fans.
Case: 2x Chieftec Dragon Full Tower
Rads: MO-RA3 18x140mm pull-push
Pumps: 2x alphacool VPP655 with EK-D5 dual top
Controllers: T-balancer/BigNG
HDD: Watercool Silentstar HD-Quad, and 4xWD Caviar Black 2TB

Have you thought of using something other than an 8150? I currently use one, and see no bottlenecks but people keep freaking out about how much the sandy processors are better.
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