Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Monitors and Displays › CrossOver 27Q LED/LED-P, 27M LED, & 2720MDP GOLD LED Monitor Club
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CrossOver 27Q LED/LED-P, 27M LED, & 2720MDP GOLD LED Monitor Club - Page 618

post #6171 of 6483
I have someone offering a Crossover 2720mdp for $275, would this be a good deal at this point in time? It has a single dead pixel, but it is right by the clock, so I do not see it really being an issue. In the long run are these monitors problematic, or so long as they work out of the box for awhile they should be good to go?
Edited by Alpha-Leader - 10/23/13 at 10:24am
post #6172 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

There is *NO OTHER OPTION* if you plug a monitor with no hardware scaler into an Nvidia card using newer drivers. Of course you are using GPU scaling, it doesn't let you select anything else. Go to the Nvidia driver tab labeled "Adjust Desktop Size and Position" and look.

The setting "Display - No Scaling" basically bypasses the Nvidia scaling pipeline and defaults to whatever scaling solution your monitor has. Any of the "GPU scaling" choices adds like 1-2 frames input lag which the driver buffers, even while using native resolution. Using a setting like "Display - Aspect Ratio" for scaling also adds buffer lag while running native resolution too, but it's still less lag than any of the GPU scaling options.

Now do you understand???

Read the post I made describing the issue and showing pictures of it:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1355400/if-you-own-an-nvidia-card-and-buy-a-27-korean-ips-prepare-to-take-it-up-the-rear

This whole issue is also only a side issue of Nvidia input lag. The last completely lag free Nvidia driver was 186.82. Input lag started going up with the 190 series, and the only two drivers since then with low input lag like the old days are 267.59 and 295.73.

267.59 also lets you use the old scaling module, before it was rewritten, to bypass being forced to use GPU scaling on a Crossover.

Lots of other stuff covered in the link in my signature too.

yes, I know and looked. I can select aspect ratio, full screen and no scaling all controlled by the gpu.

"The setting "Display - No Scaling" basically bypasses the Nvidia scaling pipeline and defaults to whatever scaling solution your monitor has. "

I know exactly how it works. I am just confused on what hardware (scaler) you are selecting to use on the crossover. There is no scaler! So for the DISPLAY instead of GPU option to appear in the nvidia control panel there has to physically be hardware (scaler)detected for the driver to control it. Do you understand? If I plug a monitor in with a scaler I can choose the both options, which makes sense. You are still not explaining what the DISPLAY (scaler) is and where it is in the crossover or how the driver is written/controls this DISPLAY scaler. All you are describing is the options in the control panel. What you are saying is there is a virtual scaler called DISPLAY with the older driver. My eyes cannot see a 2 fps drop with a 60hz monitor. If it was 45-50Hz then yes. Buy a 120Hz monitor if your eyes are godlike.
Edited by Craigaaa - 10/23/13 at 8:09pm
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6173 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigaaa View Post

yes, I know and looked. I can select aspect ratio, full screen and no scaling all controlled by the gpu.

I know exactly how it works. I am just confused on what hardware (scaler) you are selecting to use on the crossover. There is no scaler! So for the DISPLAY instead of GPU option to appear in the nvidia control panel there has to physically be hardware (scaler)detected for the driver to control it.

There is really nothing to understand except that by selecting any option under GPU scaling in newer drivers, it applies a LARGE, predefined buffer to apply before spitting the frames out, even in native resolution. When you load an older driver before the scaling module was rewritten such as 267.59, you aren't affected by this huge, laggy buffer pipeline if you select the plain "No Scaling" option. The difference is similar to having Vsync turned on or off. I'm not sure why you're too lazy to test it. It's not a minor change that's barely noticeable, you should notice it easily.

So yea, older drivers just pass the info to the display without doing anything to it with scaling turned off, while newer drivers with GPU scaling seem to be holding on to that data for a long time.
post #6174 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

There is really nothing to understand except that by selecting any option under GPU scaling in newer drivers, it applies a LARGE, predefined buffer to apply before spitting the frames out, even in native resolution. When you load an older driver before the scaling module was rewritten such as 267.59, you aren't affected by this huge, laggy buffer pipeline if you select the plain "No Scaling" option. The difference is similar to having Vsync turned on or off. I'm not sure why you're too lazy to test it. It's not a minor change that's barely noticeable, you should notice it easily.

So yea, older drivers just pass the info to the display without doing anything to it with scaling turned off, while newer drivers with GPU scaling seem to be holding on to that data for a long time.

"When you load an older driver before the scaling module was rewritten such as 267.59, you aren't affected by this huge, laggy buffer pipeline if you select the plain "No Scaling" option."

Wait what? Plain no scaling option? I thought you said you can actually select DISPLAY as using the displays built in scaler...Test what? The old driver? I don't have any noticeable input lag with my current driver/drivers. Funny how there is only 6 posts on your thread. I think there would be a lot more people complaining about the huge laggy buffer.

"So yea, older drivers just pass the info to the display without doing anything to it with scaling turned off, while newer drivers with GPU scaling seem to be holding on to that data for a long time."

But you said you selected the DISPLAY with the older driver. So the display has to do something with the signal data since the driver detects it. Must be some virtual scaling device built into the older driver. Yes, it takes much longer for signal data to be scaled by the gpu and sent to the input of the videoboard then to the logic board but only you can notice it.
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6175 of 6483
Have been absent for a while but just purchased a new 27Q LED-P to have a dual monitor setup and thought I'd share my experiences. Purchased a pixel perfect from Accessorieswhole and as usual their customer service was exemplary. My old 27Q has the rev00 driver board and was having the issues where the screen goes black. With my new purchase I inquired about getting a new driver board and they were really helpful.

The new monitor arrived today shipped on Monday delivered Friday really quick shipping to Australia. It actually got into the country Wednesday morning but must have been held up in customs. No dead/stuck pixels, no back light bleed and in the short time I've been using it the panel itself seems very uniform. Only issue is that the panel seems to have better colour accuracy than my old one. The new one is closer to white whilst the older one is more on the blue side. Just wondering what people are using to match colour profiles between multiple monitors? I have an X-Rite i1 Display pro and I've used it for profiling a single monitor. Has anyone used one for multiple monitor matching that has any comments on the process?

Edit: Oh I'd forgotten. I lost the thumbscrew for controlling the elevation of the stand from my first Crossover during the floods we had here recently whilst moving all my gear. Anyone know if it's a standard thumbscrew or anyone had to replace their own?
Edited by Ftruck - 10/24/13 at 11:57pm
Big Boy
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 5960x Asus Rampage V Extreme EVGA SC GTX980 EVGA SC GTX980 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjawz 4 2400mhz 16GB Crucial M4 3 x Hitachi Deskstar 7K3000 2TB Samsung 840 Pro 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LGE BH12LS38  Corsair H100 (Custom water loop in the future) Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit Crossover LED-P 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch Ninja with brown switches Seasonic X-1250 Coolermaster Cosmos II Logitech Proteus Core G502 
Mouse PadAudio
Razer Scarab Aktimate Mini+ 
  hide details  
Reply
Big Boy
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 5960x Asus Rampage V Extreme EVGA SC GTX980 EVGA SC GTX980 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjawz 4 2400mhz 16GB Crucial M4 3 x Hitachi Deskstar 7K3000 2TB Samsung 840 Pro 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LGE BH12LS38  Corsair H100 (Custom water loop in the future) Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit Crossover LED-P 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch Ninja with brown switches Seasonic X-1250 Coolermaster Cosmos II Logitech Proteus Core G502 
Mouse PadAudio
Razer Scarab Aktimate Mini+ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6176 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigaaa View Post

Funny how there is only 6 posts on your thread. I think there would be a lot more people complaining about the huge laggy buffer.

You can easily test it yourself. Plug in a monitor with a scaler and switch back and forth between "Display - No Scaling" and "GPU - No Scaling". You keep trying to claim it's not possible because you think it would make you senile for not noticing it or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigaaa View Post

But you said you selected the DISPLAY with the older driver..

I clearly posted screenshots of the older scaling tab vs newer tab in the thread I linked. I swear you didn't even read it and just keep typing random stuff to try and convince yourself that the Nvidia drivers are created by Jesus and not possible to be screwed up.


post #6177 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

You can easily test it yourself. Plug in a monitor with a scaler and switch back and forth between "Display - No Scaling" and "GPU - No Scaling". You keep trying to claim it's not possible because you think it would make you senile for not noticing it or something.
I clearly posted screenshots of the older scaling tab vs newer tab in the thread I linked. I swear you didn't even read it and just keep typing random stuff to try and convince yourself that the Nvidia drivers are created by Jesus and not possible to be screwed up.



Did I ever say you could not switch between display scaling and gpu scaling with a monitor that has a scaler...no I did not. What you clearly said was, you can select DISPLAY no scaling with your monitor (crossover) with the older nvidia driver. That is wrong you cannot because there is not a scaler in the crossover. What you are doing is just not using any device as a scaler. You can see in your screenshot that you cannot select the display for scaling. Typing random stuff as in things that you don't understand. If your eyes can pick up the HUGE video lag you shouldn't have bought a 60hz monitor since everyone of your threads are about input lag.

I just don't think you know how to read....

"I know exactly how it works. I am just confused on what hardware (scaler) you are selecting to use on the crossover. There is no scaler! So for the DISPLAY instead of GPU option to appear in the nvidia control panel there has to physically be hardware (scaler)detected for the driver to control it. Do you understand? If I plug a monitor in with a scaler I can choose the both options, which makes sense. "
Edited by Craigaaa - 10/25/13 at 4:56pm
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6178 of 6483
Got to be kidding me, I never claimed anything besides exactly what I posted screenshots of. Stop trying to twist my words around.

The Nvidia drivers have a crap ton of input lag except 267.59 and 295.73 with "No Scaling" or "Display - No Scaling" selected, the end, nothing else to discuss. Whatever nomenclature you want to try and argue about is irrelevant.

"GPU - No Scaling" on the Nvidia drivers has a lot higher input lag than "Display - No scaling" and you're forced to use GPU scaling with the Crossover unless you load an older driver before the scaling module was rewritten such as 267.59.
Edited by r0ach - 10/26/13 at 3:52am
post #6179 of 6483
I have troubles eliminating artifacts on my 27Q. It looks similar as this

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1196517/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL

but often it gets worse, I tried many option in AMD drivers since 12.11 till 13.9

very often it occurs when Firefox in running and other directshow video comes in

I wonder if it's my graphics card HD7770, drivers or maybe a faulty cable
post #6180 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

Got to be kidding me, I never claimed anything besides exactly what I posted screenshots of. Stop trying to twist my words around.

The Nvidia drivers have a crap ton of input lag except 267.59 and 295.73 with "No Scaling" or "Display - No Scaling" selected, the end, nothing else to discuss. Whatever nomenclature you want to try and argue about is irrelevant.

"GPU - No Scaling" on the Nvidia drivers has a lot higher input lag than "Display - No scaling" and you're forced to use GPU scaling with the Crossover unless you load an older driver before the scaling module was rewritten such as 267.59.

You said that you can select DISPLAY no scaling with the crossover monitor with the older driver. You just said it again! Your quote below.

except 267.59 and 295.73 with "No Scaling" or "Display - No Scaling" selected

Well which one is it? No scaling option or Display- No scaling because I am only seeing the option for No scaling which is used by Nvidia (GPU). You cannot perform scaling on the display because it is greyed out and does not have a scaler. (crossover)

Yes, I already know that you said the older driver lets you disable use of the gpu for scaling and with the newer driver you are forced to use the gpu for scaling. I already said this in my post from the screenshot you showed. You don't even know understand what are saying. In reality you should not be able to perform scaling on a display that does not have a scaler built in. In order to select DISPLAY NO SCALING with the crossover monitor with the older driver you should have a scaler built in to your monitor! I am asking you how the hell the older driver lets you select a virtual device in the older driver with your crossover. What you are saying in your post is telling everyone with the older driver you can perform scaling on your crossovers korean monitor and select the option DISPLAY no scaling. What the driver realistically should be doing on a hardware level is detecting the scaler in the crossover and then you are able to disable the scaling. I understand the older driver has input lag that you can notice but only a few people will notice it. It makes sense to me why they rewrote the driver. It makes it easier to use and perform scaling on the proper device. Now the older driver based on your theory forces perform scaling on: "display" then option NO scaling is selected. I am not seeing that with the older driver. What you are doing in the older driver is the exact same thing you are on the new driver with the crossover monitor. Quote from your thread below.

"After loading up the old driver and using the standard "No Scaling" option, your Korean IPS will now feel like CRT-level response."


"The "GPU - No Scaling" option has vastly higher input lag than the "Display - No Scaling" choice."

The older driver greys out the use of the Displays scaler. You cannot perform scaling with the display! You are still forced to use NVIDIA (GPU) for scaling which you then select No scaling option. You are saying that the GPU- No scaling option has higher input lag when Nvidia- No scaling option in the old control panel is the same thing.

I am asking you a simple question which you cannot answer. You are just posting screenshots, instructions how to bypass the input lag. I want to see a screenshot of the older control panel with the USE MY DISPLAY for scaling and then you selecting the option for NO SCALING. Where the DISPLAY performs the scaling. (with crossover) Right now you are completely wrong and the old/new drivers have exactly the same options which still force you to use NVIDIA or "GPU" for scaling.

Below shows the older driver control panel and the new driver control panel. Nvidia scaling in the older control panel means your NVIDIA "GPU." I am not sure why you think you are performing scaling on the DISPLAY since it is greyed out. You are still forced using the NVIDIA or GPU with the older driver while selecting no scaling option. That would be the exact same with the newer driver when I am forced to perform scaling with GPU then selecting no scaling option, nvidia just removed the greyed out perform scaling on the DISPLAY option because the display does not have a scaler. Why would it be there it would make people like you more confused and it did with the older driver.

Old control panel/ driver showing that you cannot perform any type of scaling on the DISPLAY device (crossover) since it is greyed out. The old driver forces the option of perform scaling on NVIDIA which means your GPU and you select No scaling. So if you were in the newer control panel it would be the same thing as being forced to use GPU as the scaler and selecting No scaling option.



New driver with a monitor that has a built in scaler. Both scaling devices appear.



The new driver on the crossover without a scaler. Only GPU scaling device appears since the crossover does not have a scaler. Which is the exact same options as the old driver just easier to understand which device performs the scaling. The older driver calls the scaling device NVIDIA where as with the newer driver they call it "GPU". So the new driver detects the scaling devices exactly the same as the old driver. The older driver just forces the display option to appear but it cannot be selected. The new driver completely removes it since there is not scaler in the display to begin with. Says hey I detected a scaling device and the only one you have is GPU or "NVIDIA" (old driver) so I won't bother showing the option for display scaling device because I didn't detect one. The old driver acts the same but it isn't as smart. It says hey I'm showing all scaling devices possible that I am written for but if I don't find a GPU scaling device or Display scaling device I am making the option greyed out. (undetected)



new control panel/driver compared to old control panel/driver, same options.


Edited by Craigaaa - 10/27/13 at 7:15am
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Asrock OC Formula Z77 Galaxy 660Ti SLI Galaxy 660Ti 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
16Gb RipjawsX 1600Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB R0 array DVD/CD write/read Windows 7 ULT 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Crossover 27" LED IPS 8bit LG panel (WQHD) Ducky Channel Shine 2 Mechanical CoolerMaster 1000W MAX NZXT switch 810 (white) 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Taipan BF4 LE OCZ 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Monitors and Displays
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Monitors and Displays › CrossOver 27Q LED/LED-P, 27M LED, & 2720MDP GOLD LED Monitor Club