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post #6191 of 6483
I've seen a few descriptions say 8 actually for the 2735. When I looked they either said 8 bit or didn't say anything. All of the Black Tune 2755s, 2763s and every other new model AH IPS Korean monitor (Achieva Shimian QH2700 Edge, Yamakasi DS270) say they are 10 bit.
Edited by andrew110 - 10/28/13 at 6:42pm
post #6192 of 6483
The "10-bit" monitors are 8-bit panels being fed a psuedo-signal via frame-rate-control. So, the "10-bit" monitors are really "8bit + FRC" monitors. Not that it matters for us anyways, as we don't use 10 bit colour to begin with.
post #6193 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinsbane View Post

The "10-bit" monitors are 8-bit panels being fed a psuedo-signal via frame-rate-control. So, the "10-bit" monitors are really "8bit + FRC" monitors. Not that it matters for us anyways, as we don't use 10 bit colour to begin with.
What exactly does 8bit+FRC mean (in layman terms I guess). I seen this 8+FRC description on some monitors before I ordered and tried Googling it, but didn't get any clear answers.
post #6194 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinsbane View Post

The "10-bit" monitors are 8-bit panels being fed a psuedo-signal via frame-rate-control. So, the "10-bit" monitors are really "8bit + FRC" monitors. Not that it matters for us anyways, as we don't use 10 bit colour to begin with.

They are 8/10 bit selectable panels. You can either use a 8 bit video board for (24 true) making the monitor 8 bit or use 8 bit video board + FRC that will make the monitor 10 bit (30).
Edited by Craigaaa - 10/29/13 at 5:48am
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post #6195 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by enting View Post

What exactly does 8bit+FRC mean (in layman terms I guess). I seen this 8+FRC description on some monitors before I ordered and tried Googling it, but didn't get any clear answers.

Video boards output typically 6/8/10 bit to the input lvds connector on the logic board of the panel. If a panel supports 8/10 bit and you have a 8 bit video board, you can add a frame rate converter that will bump up the signal 2 more bits now achieving the full 10 bit to the panel. (or 30 bit deep color) You cannot send 10 bit (30 bit) with a 30 bit lvds cable to a 8 bit panel. You will need to remove the extra wires of the cable which then brings it down to a 24 bit cable. Then you will need to find a video board that supports 8 bit. You cannot send 10 bit(30) to the panels logic board that never was engineered to use that bit mode.
Edited by Craigaaa - 10/29/13 at 5:49am
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post #6196 of 6483
Thanks for the response, it makes some sense now. By 'cable' in those explanations, I assume this is the cable between the panel and the monitor PCB/circuitry?
post #6197 of 6483
Sooo what's the benefit of a true 10 bit panel over 8 bit+FRC?
post #6198 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew110 View Post

Sooo what's the benefit of a true 10 bit panel over 8 bit+FRC?
FRC does a temporal and spatial dithering of colours to make an illusion of an intermediate step between two colour levels. That is, it alternate two shades of red quickly, faster than the eye can see, so that the light mixes and it sort of becomes a middle colour. So, if you only had 4 bit colour, and you wanted orange, which isn't in 8 bit colour, you could quickly alternate red and yellow dozens of times a second and it would mix to become orange. Yes, that is totally the wrong mixture of light to get orange I know. Just an example.

Same thing with 8bit +FRC. It can display 8bits of true choir intensity per channel 8 levels of intensity of red, blue or green) and can also simulate inbetween levels by switching between different levels of red/blue/green very quickly.

A true 10 bit panel actually has 10 different levels of intensity for each color channel. it could theoretically apply FRC on top of this for 12 bit colour. But that would be overkill.

The takeaway? Don't worry about 8bit±frc vs 10bit. It is unnoticeable except if you use a tool specifically intended to measure the difference.

You probably wouldn't notice a difference between 6bit+FRC vs true 8 bit to be honest. I know I have to look at specific test images that are meant to show off the differences in order to tell which is which.

Edit - oh, one more thing. 8bit panels don't show a more intense red than a 6bit panel. 100% red on a 8bit panel and 100%red on a 6bit panel are, all else being equal, the same shade of red. It just happens that the 8bit can show 256 different levels of red while the 6bit can only subdivide it's red levels into 64 steps.
Edited by kevinsbane - 10/28/13 at 9:40pm
post #6199 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinsbane View Post

FRC does a temporal and spatial dithering of colours to make an illusion of an intermediate step between two colour levels. That is, it alternate two shades of red quickly, faster than the eye can see, so that the light mixes and it sort of becomes a middle colour. So, if you only had 4 bit colour, and you wanted orange, which isn't in 8 bit colour, you could quickly alternate red and yellow dozens of times a second and it would mix to become orange. Yes, that is totally the wrong mixture of light to get orange I know. Just an example.

Same thing with 8bit +FRC. It can display 8bits of true choir intensity per channel 8 levels of intensity of red, blue or green) and can also simulate inbetween levels by switching between different levels of red/blue/green very quickly.

A true 10 bit panel actually has 10 different levels of intensity for each color channel. it could theoretically apply FRC on top of this for 12 bit colour. But that would be overkill.

The takeaway? Don't worry about 8bit±frc vs 10bit. It is unnoticeable except if you use a tool specifically intended to measure the difference.

You probably wouldn't notice a difference between 6bit+FRC vs true 8 bit to be honest. I know I have to look at specific test images that are meant to show off the differences in order to tell which is which.

Edit - oh, one more thing. 8bit panels don't show a more intense red than a 6bit panel. 100% red on a 8bit panel and 100%red on a 6bit panel are, all else being equal, the same shade of red. It just happens that the 8bit can show 256 different levels of red while the 6bit can only subdivide it's red levels into 64 steps.

Yes, but you can't use a 10 bit panel and add a frc to make it 12 bit. That will not work correctly. May work in jeida mode. The panel will have to be 10/12 bit selectable to support the upscaling of the bit mode. Crossover black tunes are 8 bit video boards 60 hz + FRC 120Hz paired with a 8/10 bit selectable 120Hz panel. (assuming) Instead of buying a expensive 10 bit 120Hz compatible video board or redesigning their current 8 bit boards for their 8/10 bit panels they just added a 120HZ FRC kit. This is a much cheaper way to do it. Now the video board + FRC is going into the panel 120Hz with a 10 bit color mode. Since the panel supports these rates its now a 10 bit monitor @ 120Hz. You probably can select 120Hz mode in the AIT/NVIDIA control panel.
Edited by Craigaaa - 10/29/13 at 7:10am
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post #6200 of 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigaaa View Post

Yes, but you can't use a 10 bit panel and add a frc to make it 12 bit. That will not work correctly. May work in jeida mode. The panel will have to be 10/12 bit selectable to support the upscaling of the bit mode. Crossover black tunes are 8 bit video boards 60 hz + FRC 120Hz paired with a 8/10 bit selectable 120Hz panel. (assuming) Instead of buying a expensive 10 bit 120Hz compatible video board or redesigning their current 8 bit boards for their 8/10 bit panels they just added a 120HZ FRC kit. This is a much cheaper way to do it. Now the video board + FRC is going into the panel 120Hz with a 10 bit color mode. Since the panel supports these rates its now a 10 bit monitor @ 120Hz. You probably can select 120Hz mode in the AIT/NVIDIA control panel.
Is your implication that the IPS panel in the Crossover Black Tune is actually capable of 10 bit (30bit) colour? That is, they can accurately display 1023 discrete levels of red/green/blue, given the correct support hardware? Or does your description of 8/10bit selectable 120hz panel mean a panel capable of 8 bit colour, with the option to strap on FRC?
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