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[Various] NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Review: Retaking The Performance Crown - Page 51

post #501 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Power consumption
Every review that I have read has used OCCT, furmark, or some other "stress test" as a means for measuring power consumption. Has it ever occured to any of you that the GTX 680 might have something that makes the card throttle its power usage back? I realized that one very quickly, and have a graph to counter the power consumption claims.
700
link to graph in the article
The program that was used for this test is 3DMark 2011. It's a large graph, but look at the part of the graph for "AMD HD 7970 3GB." That card, at load, uses 60-watts less power in this test. This very clearly proves that the GTX 680 is in full turbo on this benchmark, and thus, power consumption for the card is also way up. That's why nvidia's power usage claims are such a laugh. In real world usage, the HD 7970 actually uses LESS power. I would love it if someone could get ahold of a GTX 680 and HD 7970, run the same test, and verify these results. I don't think TT has any reason to lie about this, though. They gave the GTX 680 an amazing review and recommendation.
EDIT: for reference, the findings of tom's hardware confirms what TweakTown posted:
391
The price will come down on the HD 7970. For now, the GTX 680 is the clear victor.
AMD will have better drivers in a couple months too, so it's sort of a moot point.
As for tessellation, I can't really argue with that. However, I want to see tessellation performance in a game, not a benchmark. If it truly makes that much of a difference, then so be it. The GTX 680 is again the clear victor.

Yeah but Hardware Canucks, which is the site that you have been praising as the only accurate and unbiased source for graphics card reviews, did a power consumption test using Unigine Heaven which is not, and would never be, throttled in any way, and their numbers confirmed the overwhelming majority of other reviewers.

311
Image Source Article

I'm thinking that there is a serious flaw in Tweak Town's power measurement method.
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post #502 of 880
Meh I will be having a 7970 vs 680 single and SLI/CFX bench off pretty soon, prove that both cards are capable, plus properly checking out the CPU IPC/IPS vs. GPU performance.

The rest of you "arguing" about which is better clearly didn't read the benchmarks. The 680 is a clear victor in a majority of benchmarks at just about every resolution. With launch drivers no less. The pro-AMD or just anti-nVidia group trolling just need to stop stalking, and go back to trouble shooting your Catalyst, SIS, or Intel drivers. I see people defending the 7970 likes it their brother in court, don't even have one in their rigs.

Here on OCN we will prove which GPU is best for enthusiasts biggrin.gif Definitely going to be good.
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post #503 of 880
I wrote an email to a friend who doesn't check the news, but is in the market for a new card.... I'll just add that below.
Quote:
Hey man,

I know you can see the benchmarks, but I wanted to make sure you were aware or knew that 99% of it is BS. Skyrim having 2:1 perfomance bump because of the AA type, well, shouldn't be considered. A lot of the reviews I saw (PCPER and HardOCP) had used 4 of 5 games that nvidia helped develop like Batman AC, Dirt3, and so on where they went in a did some AA stuff as well as the Nvidia specific AA, filtering, or physics support.

I think you can see how bullcrap the reviews are when you look at the following two slides.

Batman: AC: http://pcper.com/files/review/2012-03-21/bac-1920-bar_0.jpg
Metro 2033: http://pcper.com/files/review/2012-03-21/metro-1920-bar_0.jpg

Clearly AMD needs to add some batter software support, game specific, but it all takes time and they have been 3 months behind on drivers as it is....Again, bad on them, but it really makes the review skew a way when you use nvidia games rather then generic "games"

Skyrim: http://pcper.com/files/review/2012-03-21/skyrim-1920-bar_0.jpg HardOCP actually investigated, found that:

1.33:1 without MSAA (would be 1:1 with OC)
2:1 with MSAA
4:1 with vendor specific

http://pcper.com/files/review/2012-03-21/oc1-bar.jpg

Compare that with the lightning edition and reference 7970 overclocks (at least 1050 on every single card)

Game: [stock/ref(925 MHZ) vs. lightning(1070MHz) vs. OC to 1170MHz]

Skyrim: 64.7 vs 73.2 vs 78 (20.6% Faster)
ME3: 117 vs. 125.2 vs. 132.1 (12.9% Faster)
BatmanAC: 40.3 vs 44.8 vs 47.9 (18.9% Faster)
BF3: 45.7 vs 51.2 vs 53.9 (17.9% Faster)
DE:HR: 62.9 vs 69.9 vs 74.9 (19.1% Faster)

http://hardocp.com/article/2012/03/20/msi_r7970_lightning_video_card_review/4

IDK man, I know the new kid on the block is always the hot crap, but a lot of this doesn't add up for me.



Anyways, on that PCPER review, I left an essay, comment if you want to read it, I will toss it here if you can't browse at work or whatever.

Ryan, I know you were extremely busy or rushed in your review, I hope you read this and consider it deeply. I read the review at work, finally get to comment. I really think the review is lacking in a few key areas, and not to say it is biased, but it leaves out some critical information.

1. The OC of the 7970 is VASTLY superior to the Nvidia card. The MSI Lightning stock OC goes to 1070, and adds 5-7 AVG FPS in gaming. When you OC that to around 1150 as just about every reference card has been able to do, it is another 5-7 AVG FPS. That isn't including the "good" cards that can OC to ~1300 and have 20-25% more frames over the stock ref designs.

2. The skyrim bench especially as well as batman appear to simply be games where the Nvidia support at development clearly gives them the edge. It would be nice to see some other games added to the benchmarking roster of games.

Specifically, R.U.S.E., Alan Wake, Wings of Prey and even Crysis (not 2) would be some good games to add. The first 3 have some very nice "effects" settings which really push the high end cards. I have a 4850, the only one of those I can run well is crysis, but I have to turn everything down and middle of the road.

3. We ALL KNOW that the ATI 79xx cards are underclocked. To the point where the 7950 beats the 7970 with a slight OC. It is extremely interesting how Metro 2033 was the single benchmark where the ATI cards pulled ahead, but contrasting that with the skyrim results, it is clear as a reader that something isn't right here. BF3 has a slight nvidia edge, Batman and Skyrim appear to have a clear Nvidia edge, but it would seem that every other game might be a flip-flop type scenario, where one card does better on one thing and the others do things better on a different game. It appears to be a driver issue, and we all know that ATI has had dramatic driver issues with the 7 series, to the point where they barely came out weeks ago.

4. The speedboost, in my opinion, is a very poor "feature". I get the idea behind it, but it seems to be clearly for power savings only and seems very much like a marketing feature or something that would make sense on a laptop rather then a desktop. I would have loved to see a feature or setting where that can be disabled, and traditional OC is possible. I see it as a negative that this isn't available.

5. The OC being limited to around 2% is a very poor limit and shows just how much the turbo effects everything. I have seen the MSI Lightning 7970, as mentioned above, OC well beyond the 10-15% normal range, upwards of adding 20-25 AVG FPS to some games.

6. Even though we all know ATI is dropping prices, it is clear that the review was tilted in a way which let it seem like nvidia was doing "a favor" by undercutting the price. If you add up all of the above, it isn't simply as clear as that. Whoever comes out first gets the high price, it always, always drops. I think if you visit the price in a week, let alone a month, it will make a lot more sense, and pricing shouldn't be handled as a major factor when we have news that the competitor will be dropping prices in response. It comes off as irresponsible to the reader when I see that, or when I see things not mentioned like that in reviews.

It's a lot to digest, but I hope it makes sense.

I would love to see an "OC" comparison when you do SLI testing, as well as some new games added to the roster for testing.

Thanks for the review.


So... Are you getting a lightning, or a gtx 680?

Needless to say OC Lightning 7970 > Lightning 7970 > OC 7970 > OC 680 > 680 (= OC 7950) > 7970 > etc.
    
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post #504 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by XPC View Post

Yeah but Hardware Canucks, which is the site that you have been praising as the only accurate and unbiased source for graphics card reviews, did a power consumption test using Unigine Heaven which is not, and would never be, throttled in any way, and their numbers confirmed the overwhelming majority of other reviewers.
311
Image Source Article
I'm thinking that there is a serious flaw in Tweak Town's power measurement method.

Tom's hardware came up with the same results though. If that's not enough to convince you of the power-toll that the GTX 680's Turbo-boost exacts, then nothing will.

If one reviewer says it, I'm somewhat skeptical. Once 2 reviewers have said it, it's pretty much confirmed.

Also, I was surprised that Hardware Canucks didn't use more than one program to test power consumption. SKYTML sort of let me down with his review this time. He could have been more thorough.
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post #505 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

That is pretty weird.
But that doesn't discount the fact that tom's hardware came up with the exact same results for the GTX 680 vs. HD 7970 on power consumption in 3DMark 11. That means their findings are legit.
That's exactly right. I actually predicted that before any reviews came out. The turbo-boost feature pulls extra power when it's being used. When it's not being used, power consumption looks amazing. When it is being used, it looks disappointing.

hmmm, are you sure you're reading the graph correctly, here's what Tom's wrote:
Quote:
The GeForce GTX 590—even though we think Nvidia did a fair job keeping it cool and quiet—is an ugly power hog. The Radeon HD 6990, which isn’t cooled well or kept quiet at all, is a little better. But still. Yuck.

As we start looking at the single-GPU cards, the situation improves. GeForce GTX 680 sits somewhere between Radeon HD 7970 and 7950—both cards that we’ve already observed to offer substantially better performance per watt than the previous champion, GeForce GTX 580.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-680-review-benchmark,3161-18.html

So, how exactly did they come up with the same findings as TweakTown's?
GTX 580 > GTX 680 > HD 6990 > HD 6970 > HD 7970 > HD 7770 > HD 7870 > HD 7950 > HD 7850.+

Here, maybe this will help, highlighted in yellow is the GTX 680.

391

I understand you're doing your absolute best to find anything wrong with the 680, you're gonna have to try harder.
Edited by 2010rig - 3/22/12 at 8:40pm
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post #506 of 880
EDIT: Damn. the colors between the GTX 680 and HD 6990 are too close to tell the difference.

That's the last time I read anything on tom's.

That makes the tweaktown graph the anamoly (kinda weird that virtually all of the HD 7970's are lower, though.) What a load of crap. I can't believe I just spent all that time on power consumption.

/withdrawn.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 3/22/12 at 8:43pm
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post #507 of 880
Anyway... Is this Boost feature going to affect overclocking at all? Will increasing voltage and core clock be the same, just with Boost working/not working depending on how high the user sets the overclock?
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post #508 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

2012rig, read the damn graph on Tom's hardware. I don't care what they wrote to downplay their findings. It's black and white and clear as day.
I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of people with their brains turned off. 2 sites have confirmed those findings on power consumption. Nothing else needs to be said.

turbo-boost boosted (pun not intended) stock clock from 1000 to ~1150..so, to be fair, just compare power draw of 7970 with 5/10% OC (~1100)..
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post #509 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Tom's hardware came up with the same results though. If that's not enough to convince you of the power-toll that the GTX 680's Turbo-boost exacts, then nothing will.
If one reviewer says it, I'm somewhat skeptical. Once 2 reviewers have said it, it's pretty much confirmed.
Also, I was surprised that Hardware Canucks didn't use more than one program to test power consumption. SKYTML sort of let me down with his review this time. He could have been more thorough.

Actually I don't know what chart you are looking at, but Tom's Hardware's chart clearly shows the GTX680 sitting between the 7970 and 7950, exactly where it's supposed to be. Also, if you actually read THIS page (which is where that chart comes from) and the page that follows it, you will see that Tom's clearly states that the 680 has considerably better performance per watt than the 7970. I think you need to get your eyes checked out, because you are dead wrong on this one.

EDIT: crap 2010rig, you beat me to it!
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post #510 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

2012rig, read the damn graph on Tom's hardware. I don't care what they wrote to downplay their findings. It's black and white and clear as day.

I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of people with their brains turned off. 2 sites have confirmed those findings on power consumption. Nothing else needs to be said.

Spinning like a top.... spin! P.S. You keep claiming to block people when they show you're wrong, but then respond to them anyway.... rolleyes.gif ?
The Sig Rig
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i7 2600K @ 4.xghz MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3) MSI GTX 970 Gaming SLI @ 1504mhz core/8020mhz m... 16GB DDR3 2x 8gb @ 1866mhz C8 
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240GB Sandisk Extreme A few 2tb hdd's. DVDRW Corsair H75 CLC on the CPU 
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The Sig Rig
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600K @ 4.xghz MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3) MSI GTX 970 Gaming SLI @ 1504mhz core/8020mhz m... 16GB DDR3 2x 8gb @ 1866mhz C8 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
240GB Sandisk Extreme A few 2tb hdd's. DVDRW Corsair H75 CLC on the CPU 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit ACER B326hk 4k 60hz 3840x2160 IPS sst display Coolermaster Cherry MX Brown switch mechanical ... Corsair TX 950w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Fractal Design Define R3 Black Pearl Logitech MX518 EverGlide Titan "Medium" Soundblaster Z PCIE 
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Reply
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