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GTX 680s vs HD 7970s - The OCN Battle Royale - Part 2 - Page 22

post #211 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanA View Post

I know this is a rain on the beautiful parade with all the hard going enthusiasts,

and maybe I missed it, but what is, if anything, being done to correct the AMD tessellation driver cheat...

I think the tessellation off scores are the ones to go by.

 

 

k|ngp|n

 

" When comparing my GTX 680 or really any results with those of 7970, always keep in mind that all scores here are done with FULL TESSELATION and not using any sort of driver cheats that reduce it in TESSELATION heavy benchmarks as AMD drivers do.
3DMARK 11 (all 3 presets)"

 

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1681

 

It obviously affects 3DMark 11, and by what that master OC'er says it affects Unigine Heaven as well.

So AMD users have an "optimized" driver by no fault of their own. (woo hoo ! ;-)

Forgive me if I take any and every tessellated amd score with a number of grains of salt subtracted.

I have not looked nor found any analysis on what percentage additional score that driver may be delivering.

It would be fairer if someone finds a way to either test that or disable the optimization part of it.

 

teaching.gif lol is dat me ?

 

I guess not because I have no real suggestions for a "fairer test fix", but I do believe people should know the above.


doh.gif

3dmark will let you know you've changed the tess slider, because it checks for that and will display that disclaimer in an obvious fashion just like it does with non-whql drivers. Anyone who posts a 3dmark score without the actual link is a dead giveaway. Posts here have to have the 3dmark link you know?
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post #212 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanA View Post

I know this is a rain on the beautiful parade with all the hard going enthusiasts,

and maybe I missed it, but what is, if anything, being done to correct the AMD tessellation driver cheat...

I think the tessellation off scores are the ones to go by.

 

 

k|ngp|n

 

" When comparing my GTX 680 or really any results with those of 7970, always keep in mind that all scores here are done with FULL TESSELATION and not using any sort of driver cheats that reduce it in TESSELATION heavy benchmarks as AMD drivers do.
3DMARK 11 (all 3 presets)"

 

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1681

 

It obviously affects 3DMark 11, and by what that master OC'er says it affects Unigine Heaven as well.

So AMD users have an "optimized" driver by no fault of their own. (woo hoo ! ;-)

Forgive me if I take any and every tessellated amd score with a number of grains of salt subtracted.

I have not looked nor found any analysis on what percentage additional score that driver may be delivering.

It would be fairer if someone finds a way to either test that or disable the optimization part of it.

 

teaching.gif lol is dat me ?

 

I guess not because I have no real suggestions for a "fairer test fix", but I do believe people should know the above.


 

This is one of the reasons I stop reading reviews or simply copy and paste what others wrote for whatever reasons. Because without proper basics understanding of what they are talking about might lead me to the "right" absolute truth. At least I would think so.

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post #213 of 416
Well we jumped on that poor guy well enough. I kind of feel bad now. Ken you just kind of put the cherry on top right there.tongue.gif
    
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post #214 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanA View Post

I know this is a rain on the beautiful parade with all the hard going enthusiasts,

and maybe I missed it, but what is, if anything, being done to correct the AMD tessellation driver cheat...

I think the tessellation off scores are the ones to go by.

 

 

k|ngp|n

 

" When comparing my GTX 680 or really any results with those of 7970, always keep in mind that all scores here are done with FULL TESSELATION and not using any sort of driver cheats that reduce it in TESSELATION heavy benchmarks as AMD drivers do.
3DMARK 11 (all 3 presets)"

 

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1681

 

It obviously affects 3DMark 11, and by what that master OC'er says it affects Unigine Heaven as well.

So AMD users have an "optimized" driver by no fault of their own. (woo hoo ! ;-)

Forgive me if I take any and every tessellated amd score with a number of grains of salt subtracted.

I have not looked nor found any analysis on what percentage additional score that driver may be delivering.

It would be fairer if someone finds a way to either test that or disable the optimization part of it.

 

teaching.gif lol is dat me ?

 

I guess not because I have no real suggestions for a "fairer test fix", but I do believe people should know the above.


You did miss it, post one.  Its not hard.

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post #215 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Well we jumped on that poor guy well enough. I kind of feel bad now. Ken you just kind of put the cherry on top right there.tongue.gif


 

Oh no what have I done eek.gif

 

I look this up teaching.gif. The definition is "teaching".

 

So the teacher is always "right" and you n00bs are always "wrong".

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post #216 of 416
New 3D mark 11 score now my CPU is back to 4.18GHz HT on
http://3dmark.com/3dm11/3088592;jsessionid=t7qtusd87h5a1p6j7mmc63ph2

CPU: 4.18, 1.36875V
QPI: x36, 1.335V
DRAM 1320
uncore x15
Driver 301.10
3D Mark 11 10265
GTX 680 +200 core = 1337 +500 Memory

Dirty overclock at the minute need to tweak Volts...
338
Edited by jacedaface - 3/31/12 at 3:18pm
    
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post #217 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

There is no driver cheat bro. There is a tesselation slider. It does the exact same thing your AF slider does. Funny that I don't see anyone freaking out about the possibility of setting your AF to low.

What is "AF'? Is that in 3DMark11 or Heaven Benchmark? Is this a slider that helps Nvidia cards somehow?

I'd love to know which one?

Thanks in advance JTom
     
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post #218 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizonian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

There is no driver cheat bro. There is a tesselation slider. It does the exact same thing your AF slider does. Funny that I don't see anyone freaking out about the possibility of setting your AF to low.
What is "AF'? Is that in 3DMark11 or Heaven Benchmark? Is this a slider that helps Nvidia cards somehow?
I'd love to know which one?
Thanks in advance JTom

I meant Antistrophic Filtering which can be forced up and down in both drivers. I mean really there are a ton of IQ things you could change if you want to. "Trilinear Optimization", "Surface Format Optimization" etc etc

Pretty sure 3dmark in performance mode defaults to 2xAF anyway but you see my point. You could definitely squeeze out 2-3 more frames in Heaven though by forcing it off. It's easy to change things in drivers to make your card run faster. That's the whole point of them being there. It bothers me when people describe it as if it's a cheat. A lot of things can be slid down and have almost indistinguishable quality. See the difference between 8xAF and 16xAF or 32x tesselation and 64x tesselation for an example.
Edited by jtom320 - 3/31/12 at 3:24pm
    
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post #219 of 416

to #214

 

Ok, let's use Endless City with tessellation levels up to 64.

 

Or this one, as the objections subside.

 

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,860536/Test-Radeon-HD-7970-Erste-Grafikkarte-mit-DirectX-111-PCI-Express-30-und-28-nm/Grafikkarte/Test/bildergalerie/?iid=1607694


Edited by SeanA - 3/31/12 at 4:00pm
post #220 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanA View Post

I know this is a rain on the beautiful parade with all the hard going enthusiasts,
and maybe I missed it, but what is, if anything, being done to correct the AMD tessellation driver cheat...
I think the tessellation off scores are the ones to go by.


k|ngp|n

" When comparing my GTX 680 or really any results with those of 7970, always keep in mind that all scores here are done with FULL TESSELATION and not using any sort of driver cheats that reduce it in TESSELATION heavy benchmarks as AMD drivers do.

3DMARK 11 (all 3 presets)"

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1681

It obviously affects 3DMark 11, and by what that master OC'er says it affects Unigine Heaven as well.
So AMD users have an "optimized" driver by no fault of their own. (woo hoo ! ;-)
Forgive me if I take any and every tessellated amd score with a number of grains of salt subtracted.
I have not looked nor found any analysis on what percentage additional score that driver may be delivering.
It would be fairer if someone finds a way to either test that or disable the optimization part of it.

teaching.gif lol is dat me ?

I guess not because I have no real suggestions for a "fairer test fix", but I do believe people should know the above.

There is no driver cheat bro. There is a tesselation slider. It does the exact same thing your AF slider does. Funny that I don't see anyone freaking out about the possibility of setting your AF to low.

It's been a feature in AMD drivers for several years. This has been addressed several times in the thread now and looking athe scores it is pretty obvious that no one is cheating. It shouldn't suprise you that 1350mhz 7970s are rolling over voltage locked 680s considering 7970s scale better with OCs and people are delievering nearly 50% increased clocks.

Go on 3dmark 11 and look at the list of top scores. The people who are scoring 14.5k with one 7970 are the ones who have disabled tesselation thru the slider. A 10k or 11k score is about normal. 12 could probabally been done with the right cooling and extra voltage tweaks.

Also since you didn't bother reading the OP.
Quote:
AMD users may need to run one extra run of the benchmark showing Tessellation On/Off in drivers to help prevent biased looking results.



Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote ?

 

" I think the tessellation off scores are the ones to go by."

 

Thanks for now noticing I did read the OP's post.

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