Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [Forbes] Conflicts of Interest in Gaming Journalism. Or the 'paid review' debate.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Forbes] Conflicts of Interest in Gaming Journalism. Or the 'paid review' debate. - Page 6

post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grief View Post

Yes this always helps new IPs, the problem is it is hard to put out a demo it takes a way from development time.
Look at Kingdoms of Amalur, new IP so needed to do a demo so people could see what the game was like. They have to push a certain percentage of the development team on the demo, and they have to break off the end code early to do it, so the demo ended up being a little buggy and unfinished.

LOL

If they released demo's hardly any of their unfinished, buggy games would get sold. Do you really think people would have bought GTA IV if they'd seen what kind of mess it was? And that's just one example, but one that still has me pissed off as I haven't played it in years and yet cost lots.

I played the Batman demo and didn't buy the game. I didn't like being told to press B to jump. I have a keyboard, ffs.

Developers and publishers don't release demo's because then they wouldn't be able to blame piracy for the horrid crap they push. I certainly don't pay to beta test games, which is why I only trust player reviews and even them I take with a grain of salt. After all how many "OMAGAWD this game is the epictest 1337zor ever made?" haven't we seen for yet another generic COD drivel?
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX8320 @ 4.5 Crosshair V (Third One) 290 Tri-X OC 16GB HyperX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Sandisk SSD Plus 240GB Toshiba 3TB Hitachi 2TB Swiftech H220-X 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 8.1/Mint Viewsonic VX2457-mhd Fuhlen L411 Slim Super Flower Golden King 650W 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Enthoo Pro G400 Super Flower 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
Reply
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX8320 @ 4.5 Crosshair V (Third One) 290 Tri-X OC 16GB HyperX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Sandisk SSD Plus 240GB Toshiba 3TB Hitachi 2TB Swiftech H220-X 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 8.1/Mint Viewsonic VX2457-mhd Fuhlen L411 Slim Super Flower Golden King 650W 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Enthoo Pro G400 Super Flower 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
Reply
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibage View Post

He just highlights the worst the games have to offer. I can't imagine him actually hating so many games. Although his "opinion" has deterred me from buying a few games. He's brutally honest but I wouldn't give him too much more credibility than say, IGN. He's paid to keep writing those angry reviews. However, when he says he likes something, it's usually worth checking out. I do watch whatever he has though weekly. Wednesdays are one of my favorite days of the week because of his videos and now Extra Credits.
On a side note, I'd love if the EC team would start a review series.

Of course he's paid to write reviews but I get the impression that he picks the game. It's not like he's sent a game for free and told to give it a good review like reviewers are. Especially since he rags on publishers and developers like there's no tomorrow using profanities galore. He is not in the same category as IGN, he's more honest and therefore much more credible. Sure, he accentuates some stuff for the show but otherwise he's like that 24/7 (read his blogs).
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I don't buy this at all.
A demo shouldn't need to be released much earlier than the game, and should be the game, just with most of the content stripped out.
Many demos I have back from the glory days of demo disks and the like were simply the final release with some levels and other assets deleted, and a small patch applied so you couldn't just copy them over and have the full game (and some didn't even have that).

Trust me, making a demo usually takes quite a bit of time and effort. You have to determine the minimum set of assets required by the parts of the game covered by the demo. You have to be able to gate the progress of the player in such a way that they are confined to the area(s) and content of the demo. There are a hundred of things required when making a demo. Of course, that depends on the quality of the demo as well, lately with smaller games they just give the player the full set of content and have a few pieces of code to prevent you from going past a certain point. This puts a lot less work on the developer, but results in a demo that is many times larger than it needs to be, which can result in fewer downloads of a demo for the company.
Foldatron
(17 items)
 
Mat
(10 items)
 
Work iMac
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 950 EVGA x58 3-way SLI EVGA GTX 660ti GTX 275 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x2GB Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 80GB Intel X25-M SSD 2TB WD Black 150GB WD Raptor 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
2x 150GB WD V-raptor in RAID0 Win7 Home 64-bit OEM 55" LED 120hz 1080p Vizio MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 
PowerCase
750W PC P&C Silencer CoolerMaster 690 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5 2500S AMD 6770M 8GB (2x4GB) at 1333Mhz 1TB, 7200 rpm 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
LG 8X Dual-Layer "SuperDrive" OS X Lion 27" iMac screen Mac wireless keyboard 
Mouse
Mac wireless mouse 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2600K AMD 6970M 1GB 16GB PC3-10600 DDR3 1TB 7200rpm 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB SSD 8x DL "SuperDrive" OS X 10.7 Lion 27" 2560x1440 iMac display 
Monitor
27" Apple thunderbolt display 
  hide details  
Reply
Foldatron
(17 items)
 
Mat
(10 items)
 
Work iMac
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 950 EVGA x58 3-way SLI EVGA GTX 660ti GTX 275 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x2GB Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 80GB Intel X25-M SSD 2TB WD Black 150GB WD Raptor 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
2x 150GB WD V-raptor in RAID0 Win7 Home 64-bit OEM 55" LED 120hz 1080p Vizio MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 
PowerCase
750W PC P&C Silencer CoolerMaster 690 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5 2500S AMD 6770M 8GB (2x4GB) at 1333Mhz 1TB, 7200 rpm 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
LG 8X Dual-Layer "SuperDrive" OS X Lion 27" iMac screen Mac wireless keyboard 
Mouse
Mac wireless mouse 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2600K AMD 6970M 1GB 16GB PC3-10600 DDR3 1TB 7200rpm 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB SSD 8x DL "SuperDrive" OS X 10.7 Lion 27" 2560x1440 iMac display 
Monitor
27" Apple thunderbolt display 
  hide details  
Reply
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

The problem is, reviewers are people.
As long as there's any sort of opinion, stuff like this will happen. Let's say I'm a review (the following is all hypothetical). I love the STALKER series. Each game is just better than the last. Some might say its too hard, that there is literally ZERO tutorial in Call of Pripyat, or so on. They also might say "Fallout 3 is a better suvival-horror-FPS-rpg game". I played FO3, and didnt like it. It was dull and boring. As I like STALKER, im going to allow ads for STALKER 2 much more often than ads for Fall out 4. In addition, as my reviews of the last few STALKER games have been so positive, GSC is probably going to send me an advanced copy of STALKER 2. As a result, you'll see a good review of STALKER 2 on my website that has STALKER 2 ads on it. In addition, you'll probably find negative reviews of Fallout 4. At face value, it looks like i've been bought out.
The way a review SHOULD work is by scientific method. I've seen a lot crazy crap like "MODERN WARFARE 3 IS THE BEST LOOKING GAME EVER MADE" on a bunch of sites. Then there's others that say "BF3 is the best looking....etc" on other sites. The problem is, its subjective. How it SHOULD work is objectively. Which has higher texture rez? Which has more polys? Which has technically better lighting (higher rez shadows, SSAO, SSDO, etc.). This could also carry over the gameplay: How many maps/weapons are there? Are there any glaring imbalanced? Do the controls work? Can you change controls? Is there an option to turn off/on mouse smoothing (PC)? It breaks down a bit once you get into stuff like "is the AI good" or "is shooting fun", but its still possible.
The real flaw is in the whole "story" aspect. How do you objectively measure a story. I guess the only way to do it would be to present the facts: "The story is X hours long" or "The story involves a small/large cast" or something like that.
The thing is, the average consumer doesnt really want that. Look at the MW series. Technically speaking, its been the same game for the last 5 years: same engine, same game modes (mostly) similar number of guns, exact same controls, and so on. Basically, it would get degrading reviews over the series. CoD4 would be received well, MW2 would be seen as a "copy, but improvement" and then MW3 would be seen as "milking it". Fans will of course say "no, its an improvement", but the facts are that its technically not. Same would go with BF3: Smaller maps, less maps, less teams. Its only benefits are an SP campaign and better graphics / engine.
The thing is, if you review technically, almost all modern games would get terrible reviews. ME2 and ME3 would be worse than ME1 due to less RPG mechanics, less items, less guns, less side quests and so on. Crysis 2 would be worse as its more linear, locked modding, far less open maps and so on. There would only be a very select few games that would get GOOD reviews over the course of a series (STALKER is a good example - weapon customization, bigger/more maps, new story, new characters, more guns, more quests, entirely new gameplay mechanics, etc.).
The problem with that is, that companies would stop letting you review their games. If you spend 2 years making MW4 or whatever, and its the same engine, same game modes, similar guns, same gameplay for $60, it would get nuked. As a result, they wouldnt try to put ads on your site, and wouldnt give you a review copy.
Basically, game publishers need to become robots, and so do reviewers.

No, no. I love the Stalker series myself...but none of the games would average more than an 8. Why? Cause they are lacking in many, many aspects...they have plenty of bugs per todays standards and so on. I love the games cause their superb atmosphear and hardcore gameplay fits exactly what I want to find in a game...but if we talk in general terms (and a reviewer should do so) you have to be honest that the games aren't perfect by no means: CTD are a common issue, the game is poorly balanced at the beginning of the game (you get killed without knowing why), there is no training of any sorts, there are many bugs around, etc.

So, a good reviewer would give an objective punctuation...and then, it would give a personal one based on taste. I know if I were to review the Stalker series I would get an 8 to the first one, a 5 to the second one (gameplay is broken till you have nice weapons...specially at the swamps in which you just can't hit anything due to the poor weapons available) and another 8 to the third one. Story wise the first is the best one...but the third is more polished (and the second is...well...you play it cause you like Stalker, nothing else). Now, after giving the scores, I would add that the atmosfear of the game is sooo good that it makes, for me, the best series fps-wise in the whole pc industry, and that once you add mods into the mix, the combo is as good as it gets. But the score would never be perfect cause the game ain't perfect, if you know what I mean.

At the end of the day everybody has reviewer preferences for some very simple reasons: if you find yourself having the same taste as a particular reviewer, you will find yourself basing some shopping decisions on some opinions of such reviewer cause you know that you move along. But still, scores should be objective and, after that, reviewer should put its personal pov of the game (no scores here).
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 2500k MSI P67 GD65 GTX460 1GB GTX460 1GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Ripjaws Crucial C300 Prolimatech Megahalems + 2 x GT AP15 Win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Noppoo Choc mini Corsair HX620 Microcool Banchetto rev. 2.0 black aluminium 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zowie EC1 Zowie Fiio E7 + E9 / Sennheiser HD 25 1 II 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 2500k MSI P67 GD65 GTX460 1GB GTX460 1GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Ripjaws Crucial C300 Prolimatech Megahalems + 2 x GT AP15 Win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Noppoo Choc mini Corsair HX620 Microcool Banchetto rev. 2.0 black aluminium 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zowie EC1 Zowie Fiio E7 + E9 / Sennheiser HD 25 1 II 
  hide details  
Reply
post #55 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensMewMew View Post

I have really old copies of PC Gamer. Like, when people thought Unreal was the pinnacle of graphics and we could go no further. Going back and reading those reviews, you don't feel that same "everything is AMAZING, no flaws, A+++" attitude, even for the amazing games. They complained some of Half-Life had some puzzles that weren't as clever as others, and the NPCs all looked the same. It got a 96. Half-Life, the greatest game ever made in a lot of peoples opinions got a 96. Skyrim got a 94. Half-Life is not 2% better than Skyrim, it's 10% at least, and I love Skyrim. The rubric for marking games has become increasingly lax, and trusting reviews is difficult as a result.
Shovelware should get panned and have hilarious reviews. And a lot of games that come out from major studios are shovelware- they need to be shown it's not OK to keep shoving the same thing down our throats year after year.

PC Gamer has become a joke at this point.
2500k
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k @ 4.6 1.27V Asus p67 Pro SLI 560 TI Ripjaws X 1600 2x4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial C300 + Spinpoint F3 Noctua N-D14 Win 7 x64 LG 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Professional NZXT 750w Hale90 Antec 600 M60 
Audio
ATH AD700 
  hide details  
Reply
2500k
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k @ 4.6 1.27V Asus p67 Pro SLI 560 TI Ripjaws X 1600 2x4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial C300 + Spinpoint F3 Noctua N-D14 Win 7 x64 LG 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Professional NZXT 750w Hale90 Antec 600 M60 
Audio
ATH AD700 
  hide details  
Reply
post #56 of 58
Thread Starter 
Get some more discussion going on this.
2500k
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k @ 4.6 1.27V Asus p67 Pro SLI 560 TI Ripjaws X 1600 2x4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial C300 + Spinpoint F3 Noctua N-D14 Win 7 x64 LG 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Professional NZXT 750w Hale90 Antec 600 M60 
Audio
ATH AD700 
  hide details  
Reply
2500k
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k @ 4.6 1.27V Asus p67 Pro SLI 560 TI Ripjaws X 1600 2x4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial C300 + Spinpoint F3 Noctua N-D14 Win 7 x64 LG 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Professional NZXT 750w Hale90 Antec 600 M60 
Audio
ATH AD700 
  hide details  
Reply
post #57 of 58
Thread Starter 
New Erik Kain article was just posted, I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Thought I would post it here though

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/27/mass-effect-3-and-corporate-influence-over-commercial-art/
2500k
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k @ 4.6 1.27V Asus p67 Pro SLI 560 TI Ripjaws X 1600 2x4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial C300 + Spinpoint F3 Noctua N-D14 Win 7 x64 LG 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Professional NZXT 750w Hale90 Antec 600 M60 
Audio
ATH AD700 
  hide details  
Reply
2500k
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k @ 4.6 1.27V Asus p67 Pro SLI 560 TI Ripjaws X 1600 2x4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial C300 + Spinpoint F3 Noctua N-D14 Win 7 x64 LG 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Professional NZXT 750w Hale90 Antec 600 M60 
Audio
ATH AD700 
  hide details  
Reply
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibage View Post

He just highlights the worst the games have to offer. I can't imagine him actually hating so many games. Although his "opinion" has deterred me from buying a few games. He's brutally honest but I wouldn't give him too much more credibility than say, IGN. He's paid to keep writing those angry reviews. However, when he says he likes something, it's usually worth checking out. I do watch whatever he has though weekly. Wednesdays are one of my favorite days of the week because of his videos and now Extra Credits.
On a side note, I'd love if the EC team would start a review series.

Of course he's paid to write reviews but I get the impression that he picks the game. It's not like he's sent a game for free and told to give it a good review like reviewers are. Especially since he rags on publishers and developers like there's no tomorrow using profanities galore. He is not in the same category as IGN, he's more honest and therefore much more credible. Sure, he accentuates some stuff for the show but otherwise he's like that 24/7 (read his blogs).

♥ Yatzee - he's the only reviewer I pay attention to. You just have to understand that he's not very good at playing videogames, so certain kinds of negativity can be ignored. But if he says good things about a game, I'll probably like it too.
The reason he gets paid to play games and rant about them, is that he has a following. The reason he has a following is because he's honest, and honesty is a rare resource in game reviews.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Game News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [Forbes] Conflicts of Interest in Gaming Journalism. Or the 'paid review' debate.