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[APC]Nvidia claims that there's no money in 22nm - Page 6

post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbaltazar View Post

come on that excuse is old !corporation keep ignoring microsoft advice lol!they are all like that!it isnt random luck ms has to put free lesson on how to code 101 on channel 9 be it for wp or c++ etc etc .ms is tired of correcting copy and paste coder who dont ask ms anything and after the fact are like ,oh i didnt know(i ll hide the fact from ea they wont notice)when ea do notice they ask help from ms ,ms is like cant help you now!you are too comited!should have come at dev we would have steered you in the right direction!if intel and amd and nvidia are going to ms when they need coding help ,dont you think it is a bit cocky from game dev
to think they can outsmart ms!come on lol!

You're only proving aeassa's point that you know nothing about game development or programming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Halo (original) for PC is a good example. My Pentium 4, 2GB DDR, x850pro maxes it no prob at it's monitor's maximum resolution (I cant recall off the top of my head. It's by no means high but it wasn't too bad for it's time either).
On my sig rig? 5fps with everything set as low as it can possibly go. 400x300 resolution.

You're using Halo as an example? When Halo PC came out 9 years ago it supported DX8 and I was playing it on a Radeon 9800SE with 128mb VRAM. You honestly expect it to be made to run on today's hardware? There are dos games I played on a 486 (33Mhz) processor that don't run properly on my i7, that doesn't mean it was poorly coded.
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post #52 of 81
What precious metals do they use in GPU's?
    
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post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

You're using Halo as an example? When Halo PC came out 9 years ago it supported DX8 and I was playing it on a Radeon 9800SE with 128mb VRAM. You honestly expect it to be made to run on today's hardware? There are dos games I played on a 486 (33Mhz) processor that don't run properly on my i7, that doesn't mean it was poorly coded.

Halo was microsoft's poster child for Dx9. Can you explain any reason whatsoever why it SHOULDN'T run on a Dx9 card, in the operating system it was designed for? The x1950pro is not exactly a modern video card.
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post #54 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Halo was microsoft's poster child for Dx9. Can you explain any reason whatsoever why it SHOULDN'T run on a Dx9 card, in the operating system it was designed for? The x1950pro is not exactly a modern video card.

It was coded for older hardware, and 32-bit XP, made to run on older graphics drivers possibly. Without seeing their code I have no way to know why it isn't running well on your particular set of hardware or OS.
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post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

It's extremely difficult for developers to optimize much further for video cards on PC due to the huge variety of hardware they have to code for. They have DirectX and OpenGL for consistency, but they're having to make games that will work on hardware dating back 5+ years. Not easy to make a game that looks and plays well on an Nvidia 7800GT, and a GTX 680. What ends up happening is the game is developed using lower quality assets and techniques that cut a lot of corners so that the game will run well on old machines, and then they just turn up the quality for the higher-end cards. This means the game isn't particularly optimized for newer hardware, but will run fairly well on it anyway through brute force power.

I'd say NV programmers need to get to work creating a driver set that applies for older models and works wonders, making developers jobs easier because then to support 50+ older hardware (example: 7000 series and below) you only need to use the one set of API's for those pieces of hardware... If that even makes sense. Kind of like AMD's legacy drivers which I assume make it easier to code for games using all those pieces of hardware.
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post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

It was coded for older hardware, and 32-bit XP, made to run on older graphics drivers possibly. Without seeing their code I have no way to know why it isn't running well on your particular set of hardware or OS.

The c2duo machine was originally win xp 32 bit.

Older drivers? Ok... maybe.

Bit of a stretch there though, no? I wouldn't exactly expect BF3 to run SLOWER on SLI 680's than it does on my 295, never mind running so slow that it isn't even playable, and that a far bigger jump than simply newer drivers.
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post #57 of 81
Someone start a game dev company, partner with MS to get DX12 preview stuff, and then make a Crysis-style game that is totally unplayable on current hardware. Then partner with NVidia and see what happens.
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post #58 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

I'd say NV programmers need to get to work creating a driver set that applies for older models and works wonders, making developers jobs easier because then to support 50+ older hardware (example: 7000 series and below) you only need to use the one set of API's for those pieces of hardware... If that even makes sense. Kind of like AMD's legacy drivers which I assume make it easier to code for games using all those pieces of hardware.

Well the problem with supporting older hardware is you have to design and code the game to be able to run with very little free RAM, a slow HDD, a slow GPU, a single CPU thread available, a monitor using a 5:4 aspect ratio, a 32-bit OS, etc., etc. This means every asset that's made, the number of assets that are used, art team's decisions on how to create scenery based on inevitably short view distances, the size of textures that are used, the number of sounds that can play at once, the bitrate of the sounds themselves, whether or not the sounds are cached or decompressed on the fly, and on, and on, and on.

All of these are huge problems if you want to optimize the game for high-end hardware. It takes a lot of time to make multiple versions of all of the art assets, and sound assets, and have different placement for certain things based on the quality level. Then you have to store all of the different versions of the assets on the same media, if you even have the space for it.

Take the number of things I just mentioned, and multiply that by 100, and that's what PC game developers have to deal with. It's no wonder that developers tend to target the lowest common denominator of the hardware they're willing to support, because they can make a single set of assets, and a simpler design, and make the game run on that, and then just jack up the settings for higher-end hardware. This saves tons of time (literally months to more than a year). Gamers that expect publishers and developers to spend those months or years to make the game run brilliantly for all higher-end computer hardware are barking up the wrong tree, the business model for it just isn't there.

AMD or Nvidia making better drivers can help a bit, but it won't change the fact that the game will still need to run on a single-core P4 with 1GB of RAM and a 5400 RPM HDD that's fragmented to hell and back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

The c2duo machine was originally win xp 32 bit.
Older drivers? Ok... maybe.
Bit of a stretch there though, no? I wouldn't exactly expect BF3 to run SLOWER on SLI 680's than it does on my 295, never mind running so slow that it isn't even playable, and that a far bigger jump than simply newer drivers.

BF3 isn't 9 years old. I wouldn't expect a guarantee that BF3 will run properly on a machine 9 years from now running Windows 10 on a CPU with 64 cores, 128GB of RAM, and a GPU that runs 16x as fast as a GTX 680. Sure the hardware is faster, but BF3 isn't designed to run on that kind of hardware, and Microsoft can't guarantee proper backward compatibility for all software that can run on all of its OSes over 10+ years.
Edited by lordikon - 3/27/12 at 12:28pm
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post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

Someone start a game dev company, partner with MS to get DX12 preview stuff, and then make a Crysis-style game that is totally unplayable on current hardware. Then partner with NVidia and see what happens.

It will be playable on consoles, then. tongue.gif
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post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

No thanks. Leaks and hassle.

I agree.
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