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[bbc] Probe finds high radiation in damaged Fukushima reactor - Page 3

post #21 of 160
I like how the water level is always much lower than expected... how do they keep screwing up their expectations time and time again? Where is the water going that they don't know about?
post #22 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post


You can eliminate most of it by using a method that has no possibility of a meltdown.

Yes... nuclear engineers are very good at eliminating virtually all risk of a meltdown. This is not in dispute. But the simple math is that if you add up enough almost no risk of meltdown reactors, the key word is almost.

There are always unforseen circumstances. If it's a big earthquake in Fukushima now, it's a minor Appalachian earthquake with an unforseen record-breaking drought causing the disappearance of river or lake-based fresh water supplies in the U.S. Southeast sometime in the next 100 years. Will that happen? Almost certainly not.

Anyone who believes that the chance of meltdown is absolutely nil is simply deluding themselves and not paying attention to obvious evidence right in front of their faces. Just as anyone who believes that the chance of any particular plant melting down is anything more than almost zero is wrong.

Sadly, people have a tendency to treat something with a .000001% probability as impossible.
Edited by MisterFred - 3/28/12 at 11:10am
    
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post #23 of 160
Nuclear may have few accidents, but even one can cause enough damage that the world feels it. If there is an accident, you can cover a continent in radioactive fallout and leave a scar on the earth that will outlast humans.

I'm not against nuclear power, but I wish people would stop claiming it's the alternate energy source that is going to save us. Nuclear has (very) heavy risks and costs associated with it. Just because major issues are rare, doesn't mean that don't happen.
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post #24 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootsfox View Post

Nuclear may have few accidents, but even one can cause enough damage that the world feels it. If there is an accident, you can cover a continent in radioactive fallout and leave a scar on the earth that will outlast humans.
I'm not against nuclear power, but I wish people would stop claiming it's the alternate energy source that is going to save us. Nuclear has (very) heavy risks and costs associated with it.

Nuclear has caused much fewer deaths than other types of plants, especially coal, which is the most popular here in the U.S. The difference is that with nuclear energy it's very easy to measure the deaths from radiation, whereas other plants cause greater overall pollution which kills very slowly and is more spread out.

There is a risk/cost and benefit to all sources of energy. Nuclear has greater risk than some alternatives, but a much higher benefit as well. Anyway, as I've said, NEW nuclear plants have very few risks associated with them, as they cannot possibly have a meltdown.
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post #25 of 160
There is no nuclear plant that has no possibility of causing a meltdown. None. There is always a possibility, or it's not a nuclear plant.

P.S. The primary concern with the safety of nuclear plants generally isn't deaths.
    
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post #26 of 160
nuclear asnt cause too much damage?how about twice within 60 year both time in japan?
post #27 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post

Source
I believe nuclear power was a mistake, but that's just me, and this is only ONE case that proves the real dangers in this technology, but don't color me skeptical or cynical, I'm just being realistic here...
It's true that the technology is dangerous, but it's so efficient... it produces so little waste for so much energy.... I was once told by my physics professor that a raisin's mass of nuclear matter could power San Diego for a day. Now how much coal and oil would it take to do that? Tons? Hundreds of tons? Thousands of tons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

Japan's lack of a contingency plan in case of emergency in a Tsunami zone is the only problem I see with Fukushima's disaster as a whole. Their inability to get the water pumps going again is staggering.
Modern reactors are so safe it's silly. So, so many more people die mining coal and refining oil.
In fact, my father worked at ARCO after he graduated. He has stories that are so grotesque and beyond imagination I can't believe he can sleep at night.
He understandably thinks that right now, nuclear power is the only sustainable, reasonable, and clean option available. I can't help but agree.
I'm not sure about coal mining, but I'm pretty sure that ARCO is now under the control of BP, and we all know about their track record for safety mad.gif

By the way, for those of you who want to talk about disasters: I'm pretty sure that fishermen in the gulf are still fishing up the deformed aftereffects of BP's latest screwup.

Oil and coal in general seem like dead ends - we can't produce them as quickly as we consume them. With nuclear power, we actually might have a chance of keeping up with the demand for energy. Of course there are risks, but as our technology continues to improve, I believe that our chances of experiencing additional serious nuclear accidents will decrease significantly. I would think that in the field of nuclear reactor design there would be two goals for improvement: safety and efficiency. I honestly can't see what else they'd be trying to improve headscratch.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootsfox View Post

Nuclear may have few accidents, but even one can cause enough damage that the world feels it. If there is an accident, you can cover a continent in radioactive fallout and leave a scar on the earth that will outlast humans.
I'm not against nuclear power, but I wish people would stop claiming it's the alternate energy source that is going to save us. Nuclear has (very) heavy risks and costs associated with it. Just because major issues are rare, doesn't mean that don't happen.
Also true, and you really can't argue with the possibility of ruining the earth in one quick swoop. However, to make a huge impact, you'd also need a huge disaster. With proper foresight and good regulation, we can prevent something like that from happening.
Edited by Escatore - 3/28/12 at 11:47am
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post #28 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post

I believe nuclear power was a mistake, but that's just me, and this is only ONE case that proves the real dangers in this technology, but don't color me skeptical or cynical, I'm just being realistic here...

Nuclear energy doesn't necessarily have to be centered around uranium or plutonium.

Thorium reactors look promising.
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post #29 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

There is no nuclear plant that has no possibility of causing a meltdown. None. There is always a possibility, or it's not a nuclear plant.

Thorium is not fissile without a neutron source. Modern thorium reactors with a passive cooling system literally cannot melt down. If the active cooling system shuts down, the neutron source shuts down, stopping everything but latent nuclear reactions, which can be taken care of by the passive cooling system.
    
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post #30 of 160
This wouldn't have been a problem if we were using LFTR reactors. Not under pressure, no H2 production, more efficient, and they don't make weapons grade fuel. Seems like a win win to me, power goes out LFTR shuts down, and it's not going to melt down either. Also don't discount the fact that Fukushima was using extremely old early generation GE reactors, which have documented problems. We should begin swapping out Uranium pressurized water reactors at plants for LFTR ones. Until something can replace what we currently generate power with (Coal/Uranium) the LFTR is and always has been (since the mid 20th century) the best ignored choice.

Pressurized water reactors are just bombs that make power. Lose water pressure, coolant flashes to steam, and it's done. There's little hope of saving one of those things once something bad happens. Sure that newer ones might be able to minimize how much damage is done, but all it is is damage control. H2 gas is probably still going to form and blow the top off of the containment building, it happens every time.
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