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[WP] Windows Phone once again rivals iPhone in PCMag’s Reader Survey - Page 6

post #51 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

The problem with that is if you give a Nissan GTR to a normal person and a Toyota Camry he/she will get most satisfied from the Camry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiaA View Post

I recently had the option of upgrading from my OOOOLLLLDDDD Nokia Brick to a nice new smartphone, and I ended up with the Nokia Lumia 710 after seriously considering either the LG G2X (or GX2 or something) and the Samsung Galaxy S2 (I was in that damn store for about 3 hours coming to a decision, spending an hour with each phone; Fiance almost went berserk). I also own a second generation, jailbroken Ipod touch, so I've had some serious hands on time with iOS as well.
WinPhone 7 (Lumia 710)-
Biggest Pros:
1) Silky smooth interface - I was actually appalled by how poorly Android seemed to run on not only the display phones, but all of my friend's android phones as well. I'm sure I could have solved the problem with the right phone and rooting and rom-ing and all sorts of crap, but really who wants to put up with that besides the young/unemployed/college kids who have mountains of free time and little consequence ending up with a bricked phone? Windows Phone 7 has a wonderful smoothness to it.
2) UI - This is a point of contention for a lot of people. Some people really like cluttered workspaces, or the 100% customizable flexibility of android. I found the WP7 UI to be a nice middle ground between the frankly ancient looking iOS and the almost completely malleable Android. Live tiles are nothing short of brilliant, and while the platform is young it'll be a blast to see what programmers do with them.
3) Build Quality - Nokia is known for making some solid handsets (my brick is no less than 6 years old, beaten to crap, but still powers on and still outlasts most smartphones in battery life). The Lumia feels no less solid, has a nice weight to it, and thanks to the rubberized back I don't even need a case for it. Very comfortable in the hand, not too small, not too large, not too light, not too heavy and just fat enough (some people would say its too thick, but they always disregard the ultra fat cases on their own phones while the Lumia has no need for one).
Biggest Cons:
1) Even with Mango update, OS is a little underbaked - Some very BASIC features are AWOL, like a music equalizer (although the default playback is quite nice and very loud). Although it is a design decision, the absence of a home screen background (with an option to make the tiles transparent) is a little miffing, although its hardly the biggest deal.
2) App store is not quite there yet - I was never the biggest app user, even with my iPod touch, but I was surprised that I couldn't find a Chase Banking app for my phone. I found plenty of other goodies but there were one or two apps that I had become used to on iOS simply not being present at the moment on WP7. This is an issue that will resolve itself with market share. An annoying Catch 22.
3) No expandable memory - This was the biggest one for me. The Lumia 710 comes with a removable battery so why the hell didn't Nokia give the option of throwing in a microSD card to expand the somewhat cramped 8gb of internal storage?
The Mobile OS market is kinda funny. While Apple and iOS practically invented the whole smartphone market (you know what I mean) they have actually become very conservative and rigid on the software side of things. Android, while a very powerful OS, is still very fragmented. How would I know the phone I was buying would be updated, would it be able to properly run apps? WP7 has the controlled environment and predictability of apple's ecosystem without feeling too locked down and stodgy. Great OS IMO and so long as MS keeps up the good work they'll have a customer for a long time.

There was a recent app that gave this similar functionality. "Widgets on the homescreen" Not sure if that's what you're asking though.
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post #52 of 95

People, we only have another 2+ months and Windows 8 phones "Apollo" will be showing up...   <--- that is the pre-text to this whole argument.

 

 

Ice Cream Sandwich sugar coats Android deficiencies, it isn't a real OS it is still based on cheap piece-meal functionality. And that is fine for some people who want to perp, or can afford to give up full-fledged functionality & robustness, in lue of a lower cost/price. (ie: Children, kids, grandparents, low-income, etc)

 

Android is a toy... it is great for playing and fiddling around with.  It feels very removed from being an adult device. But then again...  that is what Android was all about, a cheap platform for phones, so that those who don't (or couldn't) have a phone, now can. Problem is the carriers ate that price structure for their own profits, then markets the Androids as equivalent in functionality. Using the App store to propell and handheld computer for revenues unrelated to the phone industry.

 

 

Apple vs Microsoft...

 

 

 

post #53 of 95
Android is open, there is some people that like stuff to be open.. I like to see how things work for myself instead of being told how it actually works, even if it hurts functionality [which is a totally invalid point, I don't even know where that came from]..

It's good to have this many OSes to choose from, off course some will be more attractive than others based on what they offer, but just calling out any of them inferior because it does not do exactly what you want out of the box, is plain ignorance..

Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post


Android is a toy... 

Repeat it as much as you want; you will end up believing it and will feel much better with yourself..

Truth is, if you really believe that, you have no idea what you're talking about..
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post #54 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post

People, we only have another 2+ months and Windows 8 phones "Apollo" will be showing up...   <--- that is the pre-text to this whole argument.


Ice Cream Sandwich sugar coats Android deficiencies, it isn't a real OS it is still based on cheap piece-meal functionality. And that is fine for some people who want to perp, or can afford to give up full-fledged functionality & robustness, in lue of a lower cost/price. (ie: Children, kids, grandparents, low-income, etc)

Android is a toy... it is great for playing and fiddling around with.  It feels very removed from being an adult device. But then again...  that is what Android was all about, a cheap platform for phones, so that those who don't (or couldn't) have a phone, now can. Problem is the carriers ate that price structure for their own profits, then markets the Androids as equivalent in functionality. Using the App store to propell and handheld computer for revenues unrelated to the phone industry.


Apple vs Microsoft...



What? Apollo is coming in Q4
post #55 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post

People, we only have another 2+ months and Windows 8 phones "Apollo" will be showing up...   <--- that is the pre-text to this whole argument.


Ice Cream Sandwich sugar coats Android deficiencies, it isn't a real OS it is still based on cheap piece-meal functionality. And that is fine for some people who want to perp, or can afford to give up full-fledged functionality & robustness, in lue of a lower cost/price. (ie: Children, kids, grandparents, low-income, etc)

Android is a toy... it is great for playing and fiddling around with.  It feels very removed from being an adult device. But then again...  that is what Android was all about, a cheap platform for phones, so that those who don't (or couldn't) have a phone, now can. Problem is the carriers ate that price structure for their own profits, then markets the Androids as equivalent in functionality. Using the App store to propell and handheld computer for revenues unrelated to the phone industry.


Apple vs Microsoft...



So, what constitutes a real OS, then? iOS and WP7 aren't any better, because they basically use apps to boost functionality (App Store and Windows Marketplace) which is the same as Android with the Play Store. You should know that Android's kernel is highly based off Linux, and kernel version 3.3 finally bridges the code of two operating systems together, allowing Linux machines to run Android apps and Android devices to have better power management.

Again, more bunk statements from you. Are you sure you've spent time using an Android device, and know how it works esp. when rooted?
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post #56 of 95
It's all about preference like previously mentioned by others. iPhone was the founder of how smartphones became user-friendly, imo. I owned an iphone, iphone 3g and iphone 3gs, switched to android and i loved it, still do. Tried to go back to an iphone 4, and couldn't stand the idea of using a smaller screen compared to an EVO 3D, i used to be an android fanboy but i came to the conclusion that as long as any OS fills up my needs thats the one im going for. iOS can't do it for me. I'm definitely going to look into the nokia lumia, and if i like it, thats gonna be my next upgrade.
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post #57 of 95

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post


So, what constitutes a real OS, then? iOS and WP7 aren't any better, because they basically use apps to boost functionality (App Store and Windows Marketplace) which is the same as Android with the Play Store. You should know that Android's kernel is highly based off Linux, and kernel version 3.3 finally bridges the code of two operating systems together, allowing Linux machines to run Android apps and Android devices to have better power management.
Again, more bunk statements from you. Are you sure you've spent time using an Android device, and know how it works esp. when rooted?


 

OK...  (imo)  Android is an entertainment device first, phone and personal device second... thus a TOY.

 

 

Android doesn't sell based on how integrated or smooth everything is, or how seamless the transition from a application to application, or even cut & paste, etc. Android sells, because mahjong tiles on a screen represent the epitome of dumbing down the human race. The least common denominator for ******* included. (A Commodore AMIGA WorkBench4.0 phone, would be light years ahead of Android...lol)

 

These phones are throw-away, not meant for use for more than a few years. Why else would Google make it so hard to upgrade your Android device..? Heck, the last 2 times I took my phone in, they "had a problem" and erased all my data/texts/etc..   Poor kid at the store didn't think it was a big deal until my lawyer went back the next week for an affidavit. I conduct business on my phone & sprint is liable for their dmg.. even though Android is not their POS (which they blamed), they are the ones left dealing with the unprofessional after-math.

 

RIM, Apple & Microsoft <-- never had data loss upgrading the OS.

 

 

 

Not a toy...?

Case-n-point;  @ B-dubs the other day and a friend picked up my phone and said.. No Angry Birds, No Crosswords with friends....?   I said I am not 12 anymore..

 

He's 40..  and plays with his kids. How quaint!

 

 

 

 

Lastly, everything my OS at home does...   my phone should be able to do (just smaller screen).. 

I don't think a working professional needs to have to flush-out their OS by having to buy Apps to complete their OS. The basic low-brow interface is meant for monkey's. Menus change depending on what App you use, etc..  nothing is fluent.  When I buy a $400 phone, I expect it to be complete, with possible updates a few times a year. .. 

 

Rooting implies you have to "toy around" with your phone. It also means the phone did not come exactly how you wanted it/or how you intend to use it. The mere fact that I refuse to root my phone shows how little you understand about how "toyish" Android is. You literally suggested I have no idea how my phones works & havn't unlocked it's full potential until I root it...   <-- unprofessional

 

I did all my hacking in the late 80's.. and don't need to pretend to be "different" and root a phone to get functionality.. I just throw money elsewhere, at devices that works out of the box. If you cannot afford that peace of mind, then buy a lesser device and toy with it.. to get the functionality that many demand out of the box.  Google has dumb-down the entire industry and has now made SmarPhones a CASH COW (after you buy the phone.)

 

Sorry, but there are a million Browser games I can play for free on a working Internet Browser, why by an app again..?  Oh yeah, Android limits their browsers, then tries to get millions of people supplements them with $Apps... lol

 

 

 

If you want to buy buy Apps for entertainment, movies etc  on your phone, I will not judge, but don't kid yourself either...  

 

 

 

post #58 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post

OK...  (imo)  Android is an entertainment device first, phone and personal device second... thus a TOY.

Android doesn't sell based on how integrated or smooth everything is, or how seamless the transition from a application to application, or even cut & paste, etc. Android sells, because mahjong tiles on a screen represent the epitome of dumbing down the human race. The least common denominator for ******* included. (A Commodore AMIGA WorkBench4.0 phone, would be light years ahead of Android...lol)

These phones are throw-away, not meant for use for more than a few years. Why else would Google make it so hard to upgrade your Android device..? Heck, the last 2 times I took my phone in, they "had a problem" and erased all my data/texts/etc..   Poor kid at the store didn't think it was a big deal until my lawyer went back the next week for an affidavit. I conduct business on my phone & sprint is liable for their dmg.. even though Android is not their POS (which they blamed), they are the ones left dealing with the unprofessional after-math.

RIM, Apple & Microsoft <-- never had data loss upgrading the OS.

Not a toy...?
Case-n-point;  @ B-dubs the other day and a friend picked up my phone and said.. No Angry Birds, No Crosswords with friends....?   I said I am not 12 anymore..

He's 40..  and plays with his kids. How quaint!

Lastly, everything my OS at home does...   my phone should be able to do (just smaller screen).. 
I don't think a working professional needs to have to flush-out their OS by having to buy Apps to complete their OS. The basic low-brow interface is meant for monkey's. Menus change depending on what App you use, etc..  nothing is fluent.  When I buy a $400 phone, I expect it to be complete, with possible updates a few times a year. .. 

Rooting implies you have to "toy around" with your phone. It also means the phone did not come exactly how you wanted it/or how you intend to use it. The mere fact that I refuse to root my phone shows how little you understand about how "toyish" Android is. You literally suggested I have no idea how my phones works & havn't unlocked it's full potential until I root it...   <-- unprofessional

I did all my hacking in the late 80's.. and don't need to pretend to be "different" and root a phone to get functionality.. I just throw money elsewhere, at devices that works out of the box. If you cannot afford that peace of mind, then buy a lesser device and toy with it.. to get the functionality that many demand out of the box.  Google has dumb-down the entire industry and has now made SmarPhones a CASH COW (after you buy the phone.)

Sorry, but there are a million Browser games I can play for free on a working Internet Browser, why by an app again..?  Oh yeah, Android limits their browsers, then tries to get millions of people supplements them with $Apps... lol

If you want to buy buy Apps for entertainment, movies etc  on your phone, I will not judge, but don't kid yourself either...  

What phone are you using?

I don't think Android is marketed as a toy OS. It is also not marketed as a business-oriented OS. You're making the mistake of assuming that since 3rd party devs write and submit apps to the market--among which are many stupid games--that Google created (or rather acquired) Android for that explicit purpose. Keep in mind, Android is licensed by the handset manufacturers--they can implement and alter it (to an extent) how they want from the core version. It comes down to a case-by-case bases of handsets how well Android does, and what it appears to be designed for.

Is android a good OS? IMHO, no--or at least, not how it's been deployed so far. I don't particularly like it--but on the other hand, I don't want an iphone. I also agree, most of the time Android on whatever phone you have is not a good deployment and has numerous problems. I also agree that it's absurd that I had to root + rom my phone in order to just get it working without problems (and to remove all of the bloat that came with it).

I don't play games on my phone. At all. I don't really care about my phone for anything other than accomplishing things I need to do--phone calls, some business search, some GPS usage. Maybe--if I'm bored and stranded somewhere--to browse the net or read a book. But I don't see Android as a mobile entertainment platform--at least, not for phones (maybe for tablets). Not anymore than iOS is. I mean, how many times have you seen someone playing Bejewled or Draw Something or Words With Friends on their iphone? I see it all the time. And if anyone thinks that if WP gets popular enough that it won't go in that same direction then they're deluded.

But if you assert that Android (and even iOS) are toy OS's, then by the same extension, wouldn't the most recent release of Windows Phone qualify too? I mean, in all of the marketing all they talk about is how easy it is to update your Facebook profile. Or how many apps and games are available in their market. I have seen nothing in their marketing that addresses business tools. All the people who make phones/mobile OSs want the same thing--to target the largest demographic they can so they can make the most money. That's the general public. That's also another reason why Blackberry went down hill.

WP hasn't come to my provider--no idea how long it will take. But I'm still waiting for a good phone experience ever since ditching my dumb phone. Something that isn't buggy and just works out of the box. Android is not it. iPhone is not it. If WP gains enough momentum, maybe it will be--but that has yet to be seen.
    
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post #59 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post



 



 

OK...  (imo)  Android is an entertainment device first, phone and personal device second... thus a TOY.

 

 

Android doesn't sell based on how integrated or smooth everything is, or how seamless the transition from a application to application, or even cut & paste, etc. Android sells, because mahjong tiles on a screen represent the epitome of dumbing down the human race. The least common denominator for ******* included. (A Commodore AMIGA WorkBench4.0 phone, would be light years ahead of Android...lol)

 

These phones are throw-away, not meant for use for more than a few years. Why else would Google make it so hard to upgrade your Android device..? Heck, the last 2 times I took my phone in, they "had a problem" and erased all my data/texts/etc..   Poor kid at the store didn't think it was a big deal until my lawyer went back the next week for an affidavit. I conduct business on my phone & sprint is liable for their dmg.. even though Android is not their POS (which they blamed), they are the ones left dealing with the unprofessional after-math.

 

RIM, Apple & Microsoft <-- never had data loss upgrading the OS.

 

 

 

Not a toy...?

Case-n-point;  @ B-dubs the other day and a friend picked up my phone and said.. No Angry Birds, No Crosswords with friends....?   I said I am not 12 anymore..

 

He's 40..  and plays with his kids. How quaint!

 

 

 

 

Lastly, everything my OS at home does...   my phone should be able to do (just smaller screen).. 

I don't think a working professional needs to have to flush-out their OS by having to buy Apps to complete their OS. The basic low-brow interface is meant for monkey's. Menus change depending on what App you use, etc..  nothing is fluent.  When I buy a $400 phone, I expect it to be complete, with possible updates a few times a year. .. 

 

Rooting implies you have to "toy around" with your phone. It also means the phone did not come exactly how you wanted it/or how you intend to use it. The mere fact that I refuse to root my phone shows how little you understand about how "toyish" Android is. You literally suggested I have no idea how my phones works & havn't unlocked it's full potential until I root it...   <-- unprofessional

 

I did all my hacking in the late 80's.. and don't need to pretend to be "different" and root a phone to get functionality.. I just throw money elsewhere, at devices that works out of the box. If you cannot afford that peace of mind, then buy a lesser device and toy with it.. to get the functionality that many demand out of the box.  Google has dumb-down the entire industry and has now made SmarPhones a CASH COW (after you buy the phone.)

 

Sorry, but there are a million Browser games I can play for free on a working Internet Browser, why by an app again..?  Oh yeah, Android limits their browsers, then tries to get millions of people supplements them with $Apps... lol

 

 

 

If you want to buy buy Apps for entertainment, movies etc  on your phone, I will not judge, but don't kid yourself either...  

 

 

 


I would argue that for my android system, my widgets allow everything to be well integrated. Everything I need is right on the home screen, so no need to run different apps and move all over the place to do nearly everything I want it to. How smooth something is is definitely NOT integral to making a device NOT a toy. Your logic doesn't make sense there. Wouldn't a toy be shown as smooth, to market the wow factor for how cool it looks when you use it? I also don't see an issue with android cut and paste on my phone. No idea why you're even bringing that up. iOS didn't have it at first, and WP7 didn't either. The current implementation works just fine on android.

Devices nowadays aren't meant to be used more than a few years, and even so, nothing's stopping you from using it for more than a few years if you wanted to. I haven't had an issue with upgrading my Android device either. The people at the Sprint store having problems is because of their incompetence. I've seen enough of them to know almost all of them have no idea what they're doing. They use erasing all data as a fix-all technique, when in fact, it doesn't really fix it all. I don't see how the store techs being terrible means that android is a throw-away device. Besides, if the information on your phone is so crucial to your business, maybe you should've learned after the first time that you should tell them to not erase your information. I think you overreacted bringing your lawyer into this when you should've picked up on it.

I hope you realize that one of your friends doing that is not very good proof of your argument. Also, everything you say can be said about iOS too. In fact, if you're gonna use your friends as an example, nearly everyone I know that has an iOS device plays games on it almost all of the time. Everyone I know that has a blackberry just texts on it all the time. Everyone I know that has a windows phone or android phone just uses it to post on facebook or another social network. Not sure why you brought up your friend as a clincher for your argument, but everyone has different friends, and each friend is different. Besides, those games you mentioned came out first on iOS. Angry Birds is also out on blackberry phones (with touch screens I'm assuming) and WP7. WP7 even has xbox live integration. Does that mean it's only meant to be a toy? I would say probably not. I even know someone that has a blackberry storm and he plays games with his kids on it. There's nothing wrong with playing games with your kids. Maybe you're one of those guys that thinks having fun with your kids is not the father's business.

My phone does everything my computer can do, so not sure what you're talking about with having to buy apps to complete the OS. I have never bought an app for my android phone, and it does everything I want it to do, just using FREE apps. Any desktop OS is the same. You need to use other programs to completely operating system. Doesn't mean you have to spend a fortune getting these programs, but even a desktop OS is not "complete" when you first get it.

Rooting doesn't imply you have to "toy around" with your phone. Rooting is also not required. Also, for the crowd that does root their android phones, no phone will come exactly how they wanted it. Most people root because they can, and it gives them freedom to do whatever they want with their phones, like reinstalling their ROM or whatever. In no way is this required. Rooting isn't hacking either. No need to sensationalize a simple process.

No idea why you're talking about people wanting to be "different" with their phone, since that's not marketing android uses. That's marketing Apple uses. Your arguments make a very weak point as to how google has dumbed down the entire industry. Google hasn't made smartphones a "CASH COW." Apple has. Look at the average on number of apps downloaded for android devices and for ios devices. Aren't there purchasable apps on WP7 and blackberry as well?

Also, what's so limited about Android browsers? In addition, if you're unhappy with the stock browser, a free browser you want to get can solve it. WP7 and iOS don't even support flash in their browsers, right? Assuming those "million browser games" you play on a browser are flash games, I can play flash games on an android device too.

It's ironic you said you won't judge someone for wanting to buy apps for entertainment and movies on their phone. You clearly judged your "friend" for wanting apps for games on his phone.

You seem to be extremely bitter over android. Seriously, given your "arguments" you seem to have limited yourself to not using anything made in the last 5 years or so. All of the stuff out now wouldn't work for you, it seems. Sure, I like my old windows mobile phone for the kind of things I could do with it, but there's nothing out nowadays that is the same anymore, and I think android presents the best alternative to the old, more productive phone I had. Android's not perfect, but neither is anything else out there.

Try calming down a bit and seeing the whole picture, alright?
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i5 2500k @ 4.2 Ghz Asus P8P67-M Pro Gigabyte R9 290 16 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO Western Digital Blue Hitachi Green Thermalright Venomous X Black 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Novatouch Seasonic X-850 Gold Silverstone ft03 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Razer Deathadder Steelseries 5C Aune T1 
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Yuki
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.2 Ghz Asus P8P67-M Pro Gigabyte R9 290 16 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO Western Digital Blue Hitachi Green Thermalright Venomous X Black 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Novatouch Seasonic X-850 Gold Silverstone ft03 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Razer Deathadder Steelseries 5C Aune T1 
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Reply
post #60 of 95
Give me a Titan 2 already!mad.gif
Lee XT
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 Asus M5A97 SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7850 AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H80 Windows 8.1 Pro MCE Dell P2414H WHXV7  Microsoft Generic 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Ultra 600W Limited Edition NZXT Black Steel Razer Deathadder Razer Goliath 
Audio
Realtek HD Audio 
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Lee XT
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 Asus M5A97 SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7850 AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H80 Windows 8.1 Pro MCE Dell P2414H WHXV7  Microsoft Generic 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Ultra 600W Limited Edition NZXT Black Steel Razer Deathadder Razer Goliath 
Audio
Realtek HD Audio 
  hide details  
Reply
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