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[PC Gamer] Now you can pay £32 to unlock everything in Battlefield 3 - Page 24

post #231 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomdarkness View Post

Dunno why people feel that they must have unlocks to be competitive. My top two weapons on BF3 are the default weapons for Assault and Support despite having everything unlocked.

Yeah same. It's unfortunate though that plenty of the BF3 kids will want their parents to buy this (And there's alot of them, the level of maturity on the Battlelog forum is astounding)

Anyone who values money knows that this is a ripoff. Why pay more than the value of the game just to unlock content?
post #232 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingamajig View Post

Yeah same. It's unfortunate though that plenty of the BF3 kids will want their parents to buy this (And there's alot of them, the level of maturity on the Battlelog forum is astounding)
Anyone who values money knows that this is a ripoff. Why pay more than the value of the game just to unlock content?

because when you have more money than brains, you can piss it off like that. wheee.gif
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post #233 of 298
I honestly don't see what the problem is. you all are overreacting, if people want to unlock guns quicker and there is a demand then I see no problem at all. Its not as if it changes the game.
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post #234 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannnnn_the_man View Post

I honestly don't see what the problem is. you all are overreacting, if people want to unlock guns quicker and there is a demand then I see no problem at all. Its not as if it changes the game.
It kind of does, though. That's the misconception. Each person has their own preference on equipment and weapons, but the fact still remains that, say, the grip for certain guns does lessen the recoil. The grenade launcher attachment is something that is unlocked but can give an advantage in the right situation. Previously, they had to be unlocked to be available and to unlock them you had to play with a certain "class". Being able to buy the kits gives the advantage over those that don't buy them.

That's the fuss and that's some peoples problems. I can't bide these comparions to older games like Quake where you picked up weapons on the go. They're great games and I still stick UT3 on every now and again, but Battlefield 3 isn't like that game so the comparison or wish for it to be is null and void. A month ago you all had to unlock the kits through gameplay and now EA changed that for worse (in my opinion) and created a quick way to get an advantage over other, tighter, players. Riou was drawing the comparison to the free2play models and it was a fantastic one at that because that's now exactly how it is. The only difference is the paywall for certain guns, which if this takes off, will be coming to the next, or this, BF. It's extremely logical to think that because if buying kits is popular then it makes good business sense to EA to do that.
Edited by Rubers - 3/31/12 at 9:25am
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post #235 of 298
Can you explain how it does? I just don't see it.
post #236 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by leetmode View Post

Can you explain how it does? I just don't see it.

Sure!

http://www.pr0gaming.com/battlefield-3-all-class-kits-unlock-list

Have a look at the kit unlocks there. Some of the more useful unlocks are pretty low in their requirements such as the C4 and the AA rocket launchers for the Engineers. Then there are others such as the Javelin and Mortar that are higher up the lists. They're fairly useful items that require some game play to unlock as a reward. Your average player who just bought the game has to work towards them alongside others that have (previously, anyway) already earned and unlocked those equipment. Whereas a player who spends the full lot towards unlocking them has them all from the get go. Some servers choose to limit the level of players in order to create a level playing field and have admins actively removing players that don't follow the rules. This, for one, now effectively removes that level playing field because the level no longer shows any significance to your unlock progression.

http://bf3blog.com/battlefield-3-vehicle-unlocks/

Work down the list of unlocks for the vehicles and it's not hard to see some that are very handy, for instance, being able to use guided missiles on land vehicles in an attack helicopter. If you don't buy the kits you have to work fairly hard at the vehicles to attain those unlocks. Someone who bought them has them, obviously, from the get go. Therefore someone who hasn't bought them has a disadvantage against those players. Previously, if you hadn't leveled up enough or reached the required level you were indeed at a disadvantage - but that was a given of the game and something we all knew and understood going into the game prior to launch.

I could go on but I don't want to babble on. Eitherway I personally think it gives an unfair advantage to those that buy the kits over those that don't and it generally means that those with more money can buy their advantage. It's not a replacement for skill, sure, but it's still an advantage. Previosuly if you were missing kit you had to work for it and unlock it - now you just buy it.

I love BF3 and I've been in this since the alpha. There are certain things I hate, like the glare on the sniper rifles, and I never had the slightest problem with 3D spotting. But this is more about money than insignificant game features and that bothers me much more.
Edited by Rubers - 3/31/12 at 9:40am
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post #237 of 298
It doesn't change the game at all. It makes it more convenient for those who for whatever reason would like to just buy whatever unlocks they choose.

This doesn't affect anyone but them though.

You are always going to be up against someone using a different loadout than you. It's part of the game.

Just because a person bought the PKP at rank 1 doesn't give them any advantage, it just means they have the PKP at rank 1. They still have to deal with the compromises that come with using a less mobile LMG over the more mobile M27 default and vice versa.

It's not an insta-win situation over anyone who progresses through unlocks without paying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

It kind of does, though. That's the misconception. Each person has their own preference on equipment and weapons, but the fact still remains that, say, the grip for certain guns does lessen the recoil.

The M16 is the default assault rifle you get.

The F2000 is the fourth assault rifle you unlock.

The AN-94 is the last assault rifle you unlock.

All have a grip attachment and the grip attachment does exactly the same thing to all three weapons. The grip doesn't just work on certain weapons.

Having the AN-94 at rank 1 doesn't give an advantage over the rank 1 guy with an M16, it just gives you a different weapon that handles differently but in no way makes the default weapon any less of a viable weapon.

They have the advantage of USING the AN-94 earlier for sure, but that doesn't affect anyone but them as you still have to adapt to using the weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

The grenade launcher attachment is something that is unlocked but can give an advantage in the right situation. Previously, they had to be unlocked to be available and to unlock them you had to play with a certain "class". Being able to buy the kits gives the advantage over those that don't buy them.

I wont be buying any kits, but I can assure you that anyone who purchased the assault kit wont be somehow advantaged over my fully unlocked assault kit.

The fact remains that using a grenade launcher means you lose the ability to carry a med kit. It's not a direct advantage, it's a compromise. Besides it take zero time to unlock the M320.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

That's the fuss and that's some peoples problems. I can't bide these comparions to older games like Quake where you picked up weapons on the go. They're great games and I still stick UT3 on every now and again, but Battlefield 3 isn't like that game so the comparison or wish for it to be is null and void. A month ago you all had to unlock the kits through gameplay and now EA changed that for worse (in my opinion) and created a quick way to get an advantage over other, tighter, players. Riou was drawing the comparison to the free2play models and it was a fantastic one at that because that's now exactly how it is. The only difference is the paywall for certain guns, which if this takes off, will be coming to the next, or this, BF. It's extremely logical to think that because if buying kits is popular then it makes good business sense to EA to do that.

It's not even slightly how it is.

Battlefield 3's system allows you to unlock weapons that do not give you a distinct advantage over another person. Just compromises. ALL unlocks are available to all, paying or not.

free2play means you will NEVER have access to anything but your starting weapons no matter what you do, until you cough up for them, and the weapons that cost money are decidedly overpowered compared to the free starting weapons.

That's the whole point of free2play. It means you have to pay2win.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 3/31/12 at 10:05am
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post #238 of 298
You're talking about balance issues and sacrifices that were already present prior to the kit unlock purchases - a given and already understood and established fact. Something that holds no relevance in this conversation over purchasing the kits for real money. The fact of the matter remains that it gives the advantage of having those kits because they were bought over having played the game like everyone else has done over the last 6 months. There's also the vehicle kits which again are clear advantages. Reactive armor in tanks, or the fire extinguisher in most vehicles. Heatseekers and guided missiles in practically every flying vehicle. For instance, yeah sure buying the kits isn't going to make it easier to fly the helicopters, but being able to pound the AA with guided missiles is going to get him out of your way much quicker and allow for a faster learning experience without hindrance.

Then there's the huge niggle that it's real money used for in-game items. Something previously only really seen in Farmville and the likes. Now it's in Battlefield and its piss annoying. If they had announced this as the plan for the start do you think people would have been so welcoming of the idea? I personally don't and I think it would have come under intense scrutiny. A clever but snide move on EA's behalf (I hold DICE entirely unaccountable for this).

Btw, whatever happened to the other GrizzleBoy who was posted from page 7...He's gone and that's thumb.gif
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post #239 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

You're talking about balance issues and sacrifices that were already present prior to the kit unlock purchases - a given and already understood and established fact. Something that holds no relevance in this conversation over purchasing the kits for real money. The fact of the matter remains that it gives the advantage of having those kits because they were bought over having played the game like everyone else has done over the last 6 months.

And once again, I must say that it doesn't change the game as you argue it does, which is why I mentioned the game mechanics. They dont change, the game doesn't change. The core mechanics of the game dont change.

It doesn't provide advantage, it provides convenience for those who chose to buy whatever unlock for whatever reason.

Their convenience has no bearing on my enjoyment of the game.

I could be getting shot at by a rank 1 guy with a Pecheneg, I could be getting shot at by a top rank guy with a Pecheneg.

Nothing changes. I still want to beat both of them. The rank 1 guy simply having a Pecheneg at rank one does nothing to reduce my enjoyment of the game.

The only person who really cares at that point that the rank 1 guy has a Pecheneg, is the rank 1 guy who has a Pecheneg, who is unfortunately about to realise that higher unlocks do not provide higher skill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

There's also the vehicle kits which again are clear advantages. Reactive armor in tanks, or the fire extinguisher in most vehicles. Heatseekers and guided missiles in practically every flying vehicle. For instance, yeah sure buying the kits isn't going to make it easier to fly the helicopters, but being able to pound the AA with guided missiles is going to get him out of your way much quicker and allow for a faster learning experience without hindrance.

It doesn't actually take that much to get important vehicle unlocks (for instance, getting three kills in a jet is the equivalent of unlocking flares/heat seeking missiles in one go) and again, once you start unlocking more, it's only the convenience of having DIFFERENT vehicle unlocks to use, not better ones.

You just have the convenience of choosing a different compromise to put in your vehicle slot, but that's something that only affects you.

Everyone else is still dealing with the fact that they will always be up against someone with a different loadout to them and you are just one of those people. No different to the last person they were shooting at.

It doesn't change the game at all tbh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Then there's the huge niggle that it's real money used for in-game items. Something previously only really seen in Farmville and the likes. Now it's in Battlefield and its piss annoying. If they had announced this as the plan for the start do you think people would have been so welcoming of the idea? I personally don't and I think it would have come under intense scrutiny. A clever but snide move on EA's behalf (I hold DICE entirely unaccountable for this).
Btw, whatever happened to the other GrizzleBoy who was posted from page 7...He's gone and that's thumb.gif

It was in Battlefield BC2 and that game is two years old. People bought kits. Noone cared. It didn't change the game.

It's nothing new and just as before, they didn't do it when the game was released for obvious reasons you mentioned.

I personally thought it was dumb for people to pay for kits when they announced it in BC2, but untimately it never affected me in any way and I just didn't care. Nothing new here either.

After reading some posts made in this thread, I can see why some would want to buy the kits, but as I will continue to say, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game and it doesn't change the game.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 3/31/12 at 10:49am
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post #240 of 298
It wasn't in the PC version of BC2 and I'll bet if it was there'd've been an equal stink kicked up - I reckon. And about the vehicle kits and such, I found it fairly hard getting the heatseekers for jets because I only had flares at the time and everyone else had the HS kit and was harassing me. I still to this day prefer it when others don't have them turned on and it comes down to a dog fight.

I can see why some people would want to buy things for real money in a game. If you build it - they will come. But I also still think it's dumb, especially in a game you pay for upfront. Imho, just play the game and get on with it - no need to buy a shortcut for cash.

I STILL haven't actually logged in to play since the patch frown.gif Going to do that now the internet has been freed up somewhat in the house!

+Rep for the post
Edited by Rubers - 3/31/12 at 11:19am
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