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Realtek ALC898 vs Asus Xonar DX - Page 8

post #71 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

Just so we're clear, you know how most modern audio DACs are, right? Delta-sigma implementations?
Anyway, even ignoring that and looking at classical DACs, oversampling lets you use a simpler (with less phase issues too, less time-domain ringing) low-pass filter. Also, with the usual assumptions, the upsampling lets you push the quantization noise to more frequencies yet keep the signal content to the original band. When you low-pass filter at the end, with higher upsampling, you're cutting out a higher percentage of the noise. Again, check a standard DSP textbook...

Correct.

I didn't bother responding because I wasn't sure he knew what he was talking about.redface.gif

The days before oversampling were truly the dark ages of DAC design..
Edited by friend'scatdied - 9/20/12 at 8:37am
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post #72 of 115
But yet people prefer those "dark ages" with their own ears...
 
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post #73 of 115
Hearing is subjective, I notice the difference between ogg vorbis and FLAC in some songs as do most of my friends but a few don't, some people enjoy a completely different sound to others.
    
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post #74 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

But yet people prefer those "dark ages" with their own ears...

Ears or brains? Is the preference based on the sound or based on the expectations, something philosophical? Or because of another difference in the design? By the way, what audio DACs these days aren't oversampling internally during the D/A process, besides those specifically labeled and marketed as NOS (no oversampling)?

Though honestly, for some headphones, some people quite like single-ended OTL tube amplifiers, that's definitely the dark ages, and that actually and verifiably sounds different. I'm not going to say there's something wrong with having a certain preference.
post #75 of 115
If something is better liked is it not better despite not measuring as good for the religious science nuts? I wouldn't exactly call tube amps the dark ages. They don't distort unless they are over-driven.
 
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post #76 of 115
I can hear supersonics and they effect music.

Prove me wrong. smile.gif
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post #77 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

If something is better liked is it not better despite not measuring as good for the religious science nuts? I wouldn't exactly call tube amps the dark ages. They don't distort unless they are over-driven.

Well, I mostly just meant that people tend not to use vacuum tubes for most applications these days unless the alternative is a lot worse. Dark ages was when computers filled the size of a room and had to be serviced nonstop because a tube would blow every other second. I mean, a single vacuum tube with the right bias, conditions, is supposed to be more linear than a single transistor. Depends on the use, what's needed, what you can get away with.

I don't think I speak for the so-called group of "religious science nuts" but personally, I'd want to confirm the reason behind the popularity. Sometimes the right explanation may not be the common one proffered. Anyway, there are different ways to define "better" so you should probably start from there.

And yeah, plenty of tube amps don't distort much (it really depends on the design), but most of the common single-ended OTL headphone amp designs really do have output impedance like 100 ohms, THD at reasonable loads expressed in whole number percentages or at least high fractions of a percent, pretty high noise levels (really really good power supply filtering isn't cheap), etc. Give me a break, now... leaving "better" or "worse" sound aside, at least we can say it's "different" and should sound different using plenty of headphones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

I can hear supersonics and they effect music.

Prove me wrong. smile.gif

Hm, you may need to serve as a lab rat willing test participant for a while. thumb.gif

But seriously now, I'm really not an expert on human physiology, but the capability of humans tends to be in a certain range because of the way the parts are structured. You don't expect to find anybody with eagle-like visual acuity, even if you don't test every last person on the planet.
post #78 of 115
I know "subsonics" can effect music/feeling for sure...why not supersonics?
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post #79 of 115
So in the previous post, you say "hear" but now you just say "effect"—an important distinction.


I think it's easier for the body to pick up low frequencies, even if it's not really processed by the auditory system.

Anyway, like I said earlier, utlrasonics are supposed to be detectable by humans if the level is high enough. If it's detectable, it can make a difference (of dubious importance, but still). Also, ultrasonics can cause intermodulation products in playback gear that appear in the audible spectrum.

Though actually, what does it mean to hear? What's the mechanism? Maybe the brain or ear can modulate ultrasonics down into the audible spectrum? Is it called hearing if you're tapping the cochlea via bone conduction?

I'm no subject matter expert, so I'm not going to say anything for sure. But if there's a claim out of the mainstream understanding that wants to be taken seriously, there's a process of testing and verifying...
post #80 of 115
Hearing was used in the same way that we say that we refer to typing as speaking on the internet...and caps lock being yelling.

"I was talking to mikeaj"

"No, you were typing to him."
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