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[CVG] The face of tomorrow: How PS4 and Xbox 3's visuals will change gaming - Page 31  

post #301 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

You can be a console fanboy and still own a high end PC. I have a PS1, PS2, PS3, Original XBOX, I was going to get a 360 but it didn't seem worth it, I had a Nintendo DS, GBA. So does this not make me a PC fanboy because I have a ton of consoles? lol Just because you own a high-end PC doesn't mean you can't be a console fanboy and vice versa. I am not a PC or console fanboy, both have the same amount of pros and cons.
The reason why PC exclusive devs are moving into consoles is the money, it takes common sense to work out that the more people there are with consoles the more likely you are to make more money from more sales.
lol wut? I have never brought up the 6670 rumor, other people are. I am not buying into it either, I don't believe rumors for one simple reason. Remember iPhone 5 rumors last year?
Yes I am bringing cost into it, I'm not an idiot, I know they won't be GPUs from ASUS, MSI or any other brand like that. But it takes common sense to work out the 6670 is going to be cheaper than a 7770 or whatever you were saying next gen consoles are going to have. Also because the GPUs are built into the motherboard Sony and MS have to spend money to get them integrated, AMD/nVidia/whatever aren't going to do it for free.
Look at this current gen, they had reasonably high-end PC hardware when they were first released. IIRC it cost Sony $900 to make one PS3 and they were selling them for $400-$600.
Yes a 7850 would consume less power than the desktop equivalent. That is common sense.
Show me where I said I believed that, let-alone say it's confirmed.

Honestly I get everyone confused so sorry if that wasn't you.

And by the way you've owned way more consoles then I have. Just PS3 here. LIke I said I gotta hand it to Sony. They've put out some great games this generation.

All I'm doing though is going off past console releases. I've already talked about just how amazing the 360 GPU was for it's time. It was without a doubt about a year ahead of PC GPU's when it was released. It really was. The beyond3d in depth look illustrates this pretty well. Unified shaders, daughter die EDram for super fast frame buffer allowing them to use 128bit bus. It was incredible piece of work. Hell even the xenon CPU and cell had higher ceiling performance levels then current PC cpus at the time. Now they were in order processors and not nearly as flexible but they were impressive. In certain workloads Cell will still blow the doors off a modern sandy bridge quad.

Now this generation in the age of 250 watt GPUs they are obviously not going to be able to go as high end as they did last time around. But the PS3 shipped with a 400 watt PSU in the intitial system. Assuming they are using the same size system and they can cut down on the size of the blu-ray drive they will still have a good bit of room to work with. By the end of 2013 7850 level performance will be availble in 22nm and will likely consume under 100 watts. This leaves about 100 for the rest of the system which they could totally work with. That is assuming power consumption isn't higher. It's been higher every console generation but they could go the other way. Who knows. I do expect them to give the GPU a higher power allocation then the CPU this time around. If it's not obvious to everone by now it should be that GPU power is much more important to a decent gaming box then CPU power.

All I do know is that 7850 level performance or maybe downclocked a bit is easily achievable if Microsoft/Sony go the same direction they did with their last boxes.

4-6 core PPC7, 2 gigs of RAM, 7850 variant, blu ray sounds totally reasonable to me.
    
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post #302 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

256MB actually.
That is what so many devs were complaining about. I'm sure next gen will have at least 3GB

256MB dedicated vram + 256MB sharable XDR= 512MB
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post #303 of 330
No backwards compatibility. So freaking what? If you have the game now, you have the system that can play it. Just use it, who cares if your new one can't play the old ones? It is the dumbest thing to whine about. My slim PS3 can't play ps2 games. Anytime I want to play a PS2 game, I just put the game in my PS2. Go find something else to cry about.
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post #304 of 330
Regarding backwards compatibility, I don't think it's a huge issue, but I do understand why it's a nice feature. These consoles take up space, and it's nice to not have to have two or three generations of console setup and ready to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XPC View Post

Also the original PS3 was quieter than the 360, AND more reliable. I honestly don't think that there was much of a compromise to be had with the PS3 at all.

It was 600 dollars, and Sony was still losing money on it. It's also pretty big. That's the compromise, size and cost.
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post #305 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post

No backwards compatibility. So freaking what? If you have the game now, you have the system that can play it. Just use it, who cares if your new one can't play the old ones? It is the dumbest thing to whine about. My slim PS3 can't play ps2 games. Anytime I want to play a PS2 game, I just put the game in my PS2. Go find something else to cry about.

lol this is true I have never thought about it like that!
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post #306 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Price.
The PS3 had mid-range PC hardware when it was first released, Sony only just broke even 18-24 months ago.
Face it, no one is willing to pay $400+ for a console.

Um...wasn't the XBOX 360 $400 and the PS3 $600 when they first released?...
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post #307 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by l No l FeaR l View Post

Um...wasn't the XBOX 360 $400 and the PS3 $600 when they first released?...

Yeah, and MS/Sony would have sold twice as many if the price was lower. The problem is both of them had to sell their consoles at loss for people to buy them.

Most of the people I personally know didn't get either of them until they were down to $250 for the 360 and $300 for PS3.

And don't you remember quite a lot of people were complaining about the price?
    
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post #308 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I don't think the proposed A8/6670 is really holding back. Most people aren't likely to really notice or focus on extra graphical capabilities past a certain point, as all the people claiming that PS3/Xbox 360 visuals are comparable to, or better than, PC demonstrate. There is a point of diminishing returns, and I think that this is reached with what we would consider fairly low-end hardware.
I feel that Sony and Microsoft will be avoiding big, bulky, high TDP consoles this time around. A bigger console would seem like a step backwards for many, and the original power consumption of the Xbox 360 and PS3 had a very high cost for both Sony and MS. Sony had to have a very large, expensive console that they sold at a loss for years, and MS had unheard of failure rates in the first revision or two.
Sacrificing some performance to fit a fairly capable system in a box no bigger than the console versions out now, that will be reliable, and that they will be able to sell at a profit, seems logical to me.

I never really understood the hate of "large" consoles. I hate that so many people want some tiny little box that is whisper quiet and light weight and still expect it to be powerful and cool properly. I'd rather have a good size console that can fit larger heatsinks and larger/faster fans that remove more heat. I hate silent boxes. When I first felt the back on my X360 years ago, I barely felt any actual air movement but just felt pure heat and I knew I had to change that. I then went and took it apart and took those crappy fans out and put in slightly larger and quite a bit faster/louder fans and crafted a new and better shroud. Sure my 360 is a tad loud now, but now feeling the back, it only gets WARM because the shroud and better fans push out much more air.

I DO NOT want a tiny, silent console. I want something I know is powerful and you know. Think of it like a Ferrari. Ferrari's are powerful and that have that distinct sound that let you KNOW it's powerful, it's not some silent thing that sounds weak.
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post #309 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by bezelbeater View Post

^What Frosty said. The mean power consumption of GPU's in 2006 was much less than they are today.
260
Not that I support the choice of hardware, but I find it completely plausible that they are going to use a 6670 @ 65w over a 6850 at 125w (for reference a 7970 is 200-250w). Couple 65w with the 45w 6550D which will eat a single digit or two just sitting idle, a 100w CPU and I doubt they are going to take a chance on a higher performance primary GPU. Your already into the high 100's after all of that and you have to wonder how accepted by the public 200w+ devices are when they are being marketed to put one in each home and used on average 2-3hr's a day.
They are also splitting their aim between developing an 'always on' internet device/gaming machine, so gaming isn't a pure primary this time around either. The public would also probably freak the hell out when they saw that their consoles used 300w, no matter far it idled down. I can see mothers shrieking at the thought. And then there is cooling it...
If a game was developed for the PC and developed for it alone (not BF3 "exclusive"), I think we'd really be able to see quite a difference.
Even BF3 was developed with the console in the back of their minds, and then you have other PC developed games that use DX9 out of the gate (which tells you something).
If the console wasn't in the back of the developers mind, we could see some really good stuff. But they all know inevitably that the publisher is going to want to push the game to a console. I really think the potential is being stifled.

FYI, consoles were/are first priority in BF3, PC is second. DICE already confirmed that and it's pretty obvious by the product we got.
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post #310 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by l No l FeaR l View Post

I never really understood the hate of "large" consoles.

Space
Quote:
Originally Posted by l No l FeaR l View Post

FYI, consoles were/are first priority in BF3, PC is second. DICE already confirmed that and it's pretty obvious by the product we got.

Not what they said when it was in beta.
    
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