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Corsair H100 / H80 / H60 noise, grinding pump - *fix* + official Corsair response - Page 22

post #211 of 1734
Damn. That's pretty impressive.
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post #212 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayWill411 View Post

I have a question for you wlw. How should I go about connecting the H100 pump to a fan controller like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WgV-a-6G_k&feature=related
I'm specifically linked this video because I have the same fan controller. However, with the way I connected mine, while I can control the voltage I cannot see the RPM on the readout. Does the molex plug have any kind of RPM info? I didn't think so, but how is his controller getting the RPM info?

There's a 3-pin fan header on the H80/H100 with a single tach-out wire. It's separate from the power you get from the 4-pin molex.
post #213 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

There's a 3-pin fan header on the H80/H100 with a single tach-out wire. It's separate from the power you get from the 4-pin molex.

So I would use that to connect to the fan controller (it's currently connected to a cpu fan header on my motherboard), and connect the 4-pin molex to the PSU? Would I still be able to reduce pump RPM this way?
post #214 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

First off - this thread has been read. From page 1 to 21. I've read every post.
To be honest, I'm still fairly surprised. I don't monitor our forums too closely or work in our customer support, but I do see our RMA rates, and they aren't anything out of the usual. I'm working with our in-house engineers and with CoolIT in Calgary to come up with a fix for this one - we're pretty sure you guys have the cause nailed down, so we'll verify it and fix it.
For those of you who've had multiple bad units, all I can say is that we'll do you right. I'll work out something once we have a fix in place. It's absolutely unacceptable to have multiple failures back to back, and it seems there's some lot code differences, so once we nail down the root cause and have a fix, I'll be sure to get you guys the info.
In the meantime, I appreciate your patience. I appreciate your troubleshooting skills, and I apologize again for the stress.
I've been at Corsair for 8 years, ever cooler, power supply, fan, and case has my input and personal seal of approval and it pisses me off when something like this happens.
Email me if you have questions: redbeard@corsair.com
I'll post back here when I have a fix - which will be provided free of charge to those of you who want it. I can't provide more details until I know more, but I'll have more info as soon as I can.

Wow this is awesome. Finally something more than "RMA it". Thank you very much George. I'm looking forward to whatever you guys come up with.
post #215 of 1734
Thread Starter 
Hello George and thank you for coming in!

It's nice to see something other than "There is no problem" or "You are overreacting" or "There is no design flaw, it's probably the fans making noises" coming from a REP and that's all I have been hearing this far.

I have been sharing my thoughts and doubts on these units but if you'd like my re-hashed input on the matter, I'll do that gladly.
There's also 50+ pages thread on the Corsair forum titled "H100 pump noise" and there you would find many people who RMAed the units 3-4 times to no avail (speaking of which, the supposedly introduced RMA test-before-shipping methodology must be flawed).

I have previously tried to talk to tech support about this but they weren't interested and replied that "it's bigger than you might know" etc. so I thought maybe it is, but I shared my thoughts with everyone anyway so someday someone might benefit from it - sorry if you didn't want the details of the design shared...

As for the RMA rates and adapters, I know that the volume of those units that you sell must be big so the RMA rates do seem usually low, but all I can say is that I have to his day sent out well over a hundred adapters, mainly for H80s and H100. Also, I'm not Corsair, so I couldn't afford to send all of them for free, so I have been asking to cover the shipping cost and the parts (to some extent) but if someone didn't they still got the adapter. Success rate of those adapters is somewhere between the 90% and 95% mark and while I have repeatedly highlighted that it's not a real fix - more of a patch - it works quite well for what it is.


JayWill411 - you have to reduce the voltage on the 4-pin big Molex connector, the 3-pin going to the CPU_FAN header is just the RPM signal, nothing more.
Edited by wlw wl - 5/23/12 at 3:42am
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post #216 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw wl View Post

JayWill411 - you have to reduce the voltage on the 4-pin big Molex connector, the 3-pin going to the CPU_FAN header is just the RPM signal, nothing more.

Thanks wlw. So I guess my question still comes back to, how do I get the voltage and the RPM signal onto the same cable so I can both change the voltage and view the RPM on one header of the fan controller like the guy in the video? I'm a bit baffled.
post #217 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw wl View Post

Hello George and thank you for coming in!
It's nice to see something other than "There is no problem" or "You are overreacting" or "There is no design flaw, it's probably the fans making noises" coming from a REP and that's all I have been hearing this far.
I have been sharing my thoughts and doubts on these units but if you'd like my re-hashed input on the matter, I'll do that gladly.
There's also 50+ pages thread on the Corsair forum titled "H100 pump noise" and there you would find many people who RMAed the units 3-4 times to no avail (speaking of which, the supposedly introduced RMA test-before-shipping methodology must be flawed).
I have previously tried to talk to tech support about this but they weren't interested and replied that "it's bigger than you might know" etc. so I thought maybe it is, but I shared my thoughts with everyone anyway so someday someone might benefit from it - sorry if you didn't want the details of the design shared...
As for the RMA rates and adapters, I know that the volume of those units that you sell must be big so the RMA rates do seem usually low, but all I can say is that I have to his day sent out well over a hundred adapters, mainly for H80s and H100. Also, I'm not Corsair, so I couldn't afford to send all of them for free, so I have been asking to cover the shipping cost and the parts (to some extent) but if someone didn't they still got the adapter. Success rate of those adapters is somewhere between the 90% and 95% mark and while I have repeatedly highlighted that it's not a real fix - more of a patch - it works quite well for what it is.
.

I'd like to say thanks - it's kind of embarrassing that an end-user like yourself had to step up when something fell between the cracks, but thanks for doing it. If you don't mind, can you email me directly at redbeard@corsair.com so I can ask you a couple questions and bring you into the loop on the proposed final solution?

I can tell you for sure that one of the reasons that the issue is hard to track down is that it normally doesn't present itself if your PSU is running the +12V rail at anything less than +12.2V. The problem is that the +12V rail is technically within ATX specification from +11.4V to +12.6V, so people could have a PSU running at +12.3V or something, and get a noisy H100 on it. Then they RMA the unit, and because the root cause is the PSU voltage being handled incorrectly, the problem shows up again for them.

This explains why people who get one bad unit could get another and another and another, but most people don't have the problem at all.

Since the launch of the H80/H100 late last summer, we've sold phenomenal amounts of these things. Add in H60 and the number's even higher. Luckily we're pretty sure we have a fix and I'll post it here when we do.
post #218 of 1734
I've got an H100 that I was about to RMA (back to the retailer, as I'm in the UK I'd have to pay international shipping to send it back to Corsair). It's not massively noisy, but it is clearly audible over the fans (for reference, the pump is showing as running between 2166 and 2250 rpm, on a 12.288 +12V rail). Do you think I should continue with the RMA, or should I wait for the fix?
post #219 of 1734
Until we get the official fix, which is nice to hear if indeed it's true, I can confirm this voltage drop fix works well.

My OCZ 850W gold was putting out 12.17 V. My H80 started making the HDD noise and no flick or thump would fix it. Laying the case on its side did fix the noise, but no amount of time made the fix permanent when standing the tower up. I went and got two of the aforementioned 1N4001 voltage correcting diodes and a molex power extension. I put one diode in, fired it up and the sound was better and sometimes gone. Flicks and thumps made a difference. I added another diode, and the sound was gone. Mobo fan speeds started at ~2200 one diode went to ~2000 and two diodes, sound stopped at ~1750. Temps are unchanged. Obviously the fans connected to the H80 controller run a little slower.

Rob
Edited by Berto1286 - 5/23/12 at 8:02am
post #220 of 1734
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

I'd like to say thanks - it's kind of embarrassing that an end-user like yourself had to step up when something fell between the cracks, but thanks for doing it. If you don't mind, can you email me directly at redbeard@corsair.com so I can ask you a couple questions and bring you into the loop on the proposed final solution?
I already have sent you an e-mail, my address is wojciech.wlw at the gmail, please check your box - maybe it went into a spam folder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

I can tell you for sure that one of the reasons that the issue is hard to track down is that it normally doesn't present itself if your PSU is running the +12V rail at anything less than +12.2V. The problem is that the +12V rail is technically within ATX specification from +11.4V to +12.6V, so people could have a PSU running at +12.3V or something, and get a noisy H100 on it. Then they RMA the unit, and because the root cause is the PSU voltage being handled incorrectly, the problem shows up again for them.
This explains why people who get one bad unit could get another and another and another, but most people don't have the problem at all.
I have to agree and disagree at the same time. I have myself, same as you, speculated some time ago that the PSU might be contributing to the issue, based on the replacements presenting the same problem for many people, but the H100 I had was grinding on a Corsair HX 850W (powered off 230V) that produced a perfect 12,00 V (measured with volt meter). That's why I have previously speculated that perhaps a voltage noise (ripple) might be a factor in conjunction with the voltage. The extreme case was with a man from Poland also, who also had a Corsair PSU (AX 1200 I think) and he RMAed the H100 7 times, each time getting the same issue, and ended returning the unit for a refund.
Based on my statistics I do agree that the issue is more common among people with "12,3V PSUs" but it's not exclusive to that condition.
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