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Corsair H100 / H80 / H60 noise, grinding pump - *fix* + official Corsair response - Page 59

post #581 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

Thanks for the update, would it be possible to get a list of known PSU/H-series combinations that produce the effect?

There's no known list, as PSUs are well-within spec from +11.4V to +12.6V (+/- 5% on the +12V rail).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw wl View Post

Can you explain "fixed"? Fixed as "incorporated improvements into the product itself" or fixed as "the units that have loose bearing/shaft will not pass the QC from now on" or...?

There was a change to the tooling of the impeller and impeller housing, in conjunction with a new QC screen using a noisemeter that measures from a couple inches away. Anything that is over the limit gets sent back for rework. Initially we implemented the screen to determine failure rates, when failure rates were outside our acceptable limit (typically anything over 1% for a cooler is higher than we like) we went back and retooled the impeller and housing, which is what took the extra time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

You know as well as I do that it's not only PSU-dependant, which I can confirm myself, as my H100 was grinding on a Corsair HX 850, producing a near perfect 12,00V. It is related, but the fault is not on the PSU's side, but within the unit itself, which was confirmed by one of your engineers - Vref for the RPM setting voltage divisor is taken directly from the +12V line, rather than from a regulated voltage source.
So I'll repeat my question from the beginning of this post - have the actual and know flaws been corrected?
The problem was much more likely to occur as RPM ramped up. If the voltage was higher, the RPM was higher, which caused the issue to appear more frequently, as units that were borderline would then present themselves as problematic.

Addressing the voltage alone would have been a band-aid, and not fixed the actual problem. The problem was twofold, the impeller and impeller housing tools were producing out-of-spec parts, which required a slight redesign (the impeller was recessed more deeply) and the acceptable voltage input range had to be increased so that noise levels at different voltage input levels were acceptable. We were very thorough - we take QC seriously and with one of our flagship parts we did not want to risk some kind of nightmarish stupidity.

Anybody can make a mistake - we know this. We're not perfect. The combination of tools wearing down over time, components getting nearer to their max specs, a hard-to-track down relation to certain PSU outputs, and the fact that we couldn't replicate it internally for months made this a difficult one.

I appreciate all the help I've had from this forum and others, and you guys have literally helped us make our products better. Thank you.
post #582 of 1734
Thanks for the update Greg! I just fired off an email to RMAservice.
post #583 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by di inferi View Post

Oh, so.... My Corsair HX750 that provides 12.288 V doesn't play well with my Corsair H80?
Interesting....
Regardless, I will be happy to get a new unit.

It's not about brand or even quality of PSU, it's just that the hydro series coolers that were marginal at +12V are more likely to present the problem at higher voltages.

Some of the worst units would even present the problem at like 11.8V or 11.9V, but out of the thousands we tested, only a handful showed a problem below +12V.

Here's an example chart (not actual data, I don't have that in front of me and can't share it, but this is a very similar curve...)

SRXTB.png

As you got over +12.2V, the failure rate became unacceptable to us.
post #584 of 1734
Thanks for that George! rep+

I've been looking to get an H100, but have been reluctant to do so because of this issue.
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post #585 of 1734
@CorsairGeorge - Now that's what I call a response, thank you very much. thumb.gif

I'll be hitting up the RMA service like you stated in your previous post and appreciate you guys working hard at rectifying the situation. This is exactly the reason why I'll spend the little extra for the quality and support you guys give. So until you guys drop the ball on that, expect my business for a long time.
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post #586 of 1734
Thread Starter 
Thank you George for your answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

If the voltage was higher, the RPM was higher, which caused the issue to appear more frequently, as units that were borderline would then present themselves as problematic.

This could be easily avoided as we have discussed in the e-mails. The RPM to voltage dependency can be avoided to keep a constant 2000 RPM across the whole ATX +12V range if the reference voltage for the resistor divisor that sets the RPM is modified. After all the pump's BLDC motor works in a closed feedback loop, not in an open loop, so this can and should be done.
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post #587 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fir3Chi3f View Post

Thanks for that George! rep+
I've been looking to get an H100, but have been reluctant to do so because of this issue.
It's important to note above that even the highest failure rates we had were still in the very small single digits. Meaning that out of a hundred customers, you could count the failures on one hand fairly easily. Still higher than we'd like, but most people never saw the issue.
post #588 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

It's important to note above that even the highest failure rates we had were still in the very small single digits. Meaning that out of a hundred customers, you could count the failures on one hand fairly easily. Still higher than we'd like, but most people never saw the issue.

I understand that, but when I buy anything from corsair I expect unquestionable quality. When I hear that a few have had trouble and have even developed a "fix" I begin to reconsider my expectation. The rep was for sharing the information that something is actually being done about it.

Off topic- Have you tried setting your avatar with the OCN blue? tongue.gif

Whipped this bad boy together real quick.
564

Edit for grammar rolleyes.gif
Edited by Fir3Chi3f - 7/3/12 at 5:21pm
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post #589 of 1734
Thread Starter 
And this has to be highlighted, because I'm happy to see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

There was a change to the tooling of the impeller and impeller housing, in conjunction with a new QC screen using a noisemeter that measures from a couple inches away. Anything that is over the limit gets sent back for rework. Initially we implemented the screen to determine failure rates, when failure rates were outside our acceptable limit (typically anything over 1% for a cooler is higher than we like) we went back and retooled the impeller and housing, which is what took the extra time.
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post #590 of 1734
Anyone know who to contact for an advanced RMA?

I sent an email to the address provided by George requesting an advanced RMA and they gave me the standard copy/paste reply stating they would send out a replacement unit 1-2 days after they receive mine.

I cannot have any downtime on my PC since it is used for work/school. If I go out buying a replacement cooler for a week it won't be Corsair.
Edited by di inferi - 7/3/12 at 6:24pm
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