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Questions after lots of Water cooling research

Poll Results: Best way to cool cpu+ gpu

 
  • 80% (4)
    lots of fans on a large radiator
  • 20% (1)
    multiple radiators (smaller)
  • 0% (0)
    dual loop, one for cpu and one for gpu
5 Total Votes  
post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
HEY! ive been doing tons of research since, and while, setting up my new rig on water cooling. i guess to start ill tell you my main parts that are important. i have a 2600k i7 cpu (not over clocked yet sadly because lack of cooling) in my (crappy but working) msi p67 gd 43 motherboard. i have a brand new, and *****in Radeon 7970 running eyefinity on a 3 monitor setup (single card, for now.) and i have an h60 (thats not doing it job well enough) cooling my cpu along with 8 case fans in my armor a60 case. all this including monitors total about 2k, i only anticipated on a 1k set up at first but with my gpu upgrade and eyefinity brought that up to 2k. still soooo worth it! i hope to have this well into college, im currently a sophomore in high school. and this isnt first computer ive built. probally the 10th? but doesn't matter. im experienced enough i feel on parts and hardware.

So my main question to start out is, what is the purpose of having a dual loop or circuit water cooling loop? i think it would be extremely nice if i had a dual loop because i would be able to cool my cpu and my gpu much easier as opposed to one of them getting hot liquids moved over it from the previous part. but also i was thinking in a way that i could possibly use 2 radiators. on before and after the cpu so that there is cool liquid being transferred to both. leading into my next question...

Would using 2+ separate radiators inside my case (which if u look at it only have single 120 mm fan spots, but has alot) rather than using 1 or 2 big radiators (3-5 fan) externally, either with a mount or an easy case mod i could preform.

This also brings me to wrapping it all up. i don't really have a budget but im not trying to spend over 500 bucks on this, since i need to save up and i dont want all my summer jobs money to be drained on this LCS i want some money to help pay for my car and various other needs like my girlfriend and buddies. My computer is pretty stationary, I might move it once in a while when i go to, or host (small) lans but that wouldnt be a major problem with moving it i doubt. but id use extreme caution. so if someone could help me with my few questions thatd be AMAZING! or if someone knows of a topic similar to my questions to post a link, because i have searched but come up empty handed. THANKS! I hope you dont TLDR cuz its dry and lacks pictures... im kinda new to forum posting and dont wanna mess it up with trying to add pictures and such.
Azure Mystery
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Azure Mystery
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old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
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3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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post #2 of 15
How you set up your loop is really a matter of preference and space/convenience. While my equipment doesn't put out quite the heat of yours I wouldn't think... I run a single loop, 360 rad with 3 fans in push, inside the case... cooling a Q9550 at 4.2GHz and a ATI Radeon HD 5850 @ 1000/1100. My temperatures don't go above 60C on my processor, video card usually isn't above 40-45C.

I'm personally a fan of the larger radiator idea... reason being is it will really work out cheaper. If a 360 radiator is $90, then a 120 radiator will not be $30.. be more like $45... plus with a ton of radiators, you're looking at a ton of fittings, which in turn results in more POF (Points of failure). The least number of connections you can accomplish, the better off you'll be in just about ALL scenarios (not just water cooling, good advice for the rest of your life too lol).

So yea, find a good case that supports water cooling with atleast a 360 radiator internally. I'm not sure of the limitations of the A60, but I know my HAF 932 can fit a 360 across the top with no modification needed. Perhaps two loops... a 240 for the processor 360 for the video card(s). Or a single loop with both radiators in it... just figure out what will fit the best for you.

Another really good option is to peruse the OCN water cooling gallery and see what people are doing to keep their equipment cool. Great place to ask the questions as well.

Finally, fill in your system information in the Rig Builder. It makes helping a new user such as yourself much easier for the members here. Welcome to OCN!
Beast of Burden
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Cool story, bro!
(16 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H Gigabyte HD 7970 Reference Ripjaws Z 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 Caviar Black ASUS DVD XSPC Raystorm 
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EK FC-7970 w/ Backplate Copper/Acetal RX360 w/ 3x Yate Loon High Speed in Push XSPC Dual Bay Res w/ D5 Pump Windows 7 
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ASUS VE226H ASUS VE226H Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid Corsair HX850 
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HAF 932 Advanced Razer Deathadder QcK Mini 
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Q9550@ 3.5GHz w/ 1.191v Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P Sapphire Reference 5850 @ 775/1100 G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Crucial C300 Spinpoint F3 Caviar Black ASUS DVD-RW 
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Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Samsung 23" Saitek Eclipse III 
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Beast of Burden
(19 items)
 
Cool story, bro!
(16 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H Gigabyte HD 7970 Reference Ripjaws Z 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 Caviar Black ASUS DVD XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EK FC-7970 w/ Backplate Copper/Acetal RX360 w/ 3x Yate Loon High Speed in Push XSPC Dual Bay Res w/ D5 Pump Windows 7 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ASUS VE226H ASUS VE226H Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid Corsair HX850 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
HAF 932 Advanced Razer Deathadder QcK Mini 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q9550@ 3.5GHz w/ 1.191v Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P Sapphire Reference 5850 @ 775/1100 G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Crucial C300 Spinpoint F3 Caviar Black ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Samsung 23" Saitek Eclipse III 
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Corsair 430W NZXT Source 210 Wolf King 
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post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
THANKS FOR THE HELP! I dont think my cpu and gpu run to hot. the 28 nm is pretty cool it seems. only getes to around 60 or 70 with 3 monitors and highest over clocking with fan never aobve 55%. but my a60 has 5 fan slots in the main chaises and then 2 infront past the harddrive area used as intake fans. only problem is that none of them are able to support multi fan rads. but the good thing is case has 4 tube holes to send the system outside so i was thinking if i attached an external radiator mount on top of on the side it would work pretty well (i saw a really great mount on frozencpu but i cant find it again frown.gif ) a new case kinda sounds like a good idea but then im lookin at adding 100 bucks onto my liquid cooling bill which isnt that great. but do you think that a single loop would be able to cool my pieces? and also is there any such thing as a dual loop pump? like 1 pump that can pump 2 differnt loops? i know resiviors can do that along with new radiators and cpu blocks lol.

my case http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1325&ID=1968#Tab2
Azure Mystery
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2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
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3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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Azure Mystery
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostly Muffin View Post

So my main question to start out is, what is the purpose of having a dual loop or circuit water cooling loop? i think it would be extremely nice if i had a dual loop because i would be able to cool my cpu and my gpu much easier as opposed to one of them getting hot liquids moved over it from the previous part. but also i was thinking in a way that i could possibly use 2 radiators. on before and after the cpu so that there is cool liquid being transferred to both. leading into my next question...

This is actually not correct at all, a single loop doesn't perform worse than 2 separate loops with equal radiator amounts, and in situations with only the cpu or gpu at full load (like gaming typically has high gpu but low cpu load), a single loop will actually cool better. It takes roughly 260w of heat to raise water moving 1gpm by 1C, your CPU puts off less heat than that, so the GPU directly after the CPU is receiving less than 1C warmer water than if it had it's own loop with a proportional amount of the radiator. This is an insignificant amount.

The primary reason to run a dual loop is if you want to dedicate more of your radiator to one component than the other, rather than equally split. For example, if you have a CPU putting off 200w of heat at full load and a GPU putting off 300w at full load, and you had a 120mm radiator and a 240mm that's handling this 500w load in a single loop. The CPU receives 40% of the cooling capability, and the GPU receives 60%. If you split this into 2 loops, one device would get only 33% of the capability (the 120mm rad), and the other would get 66%. This sacrifices temps on one component to lower temps on the other, and isn't needed at all. Now, consider a less than full load scenario with the same components. Let's call the CPU at 50w under low usage, and the same 300w of GPU maxed out. In a single loop setup, your radiator is still capable of handling 500w of heat, but only has to cope with 350w, or only 70% of a full load, resulting in a lower GPU temperature. If you had a split loop, the GPU's 240mm radiator normally handles ~333w at the same temp as the single loop, and the 300w of GPU heat puts it at 90% capacity, meaning higher temps than the single loop.

To sum it up, at full load situations, dual loops can shift your cooling priorities, but given the same amount of radiator, you're merely shifting heat around, not providing lower temps to everything. At less than full load situations, dual loops are unable to make full use of unused cooling capability, and will run hotter.
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Samsung F4 XSPC Rasa cpu block 2x XSPC Razor 460 Black Ice GTX 360 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
MCP-350 Windows 7 64bit Samsung SyncMaster SA300 23" Filco Majestouch "Otaku" Tenkeyless 
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post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thats extremely interesting. Ive never thought of it like that. So if i was to use 2 rads in a single loop would that be better? Like using 2 or possibly 3 120mm rather than a 360 mm rad? What do u think would be best given my set up. Im trying to overclock but im not trying to get a massive overclock . Just enough to run my games with no problems ever and keep them under 60. And my gpu gets much hotter than most just because its putting out 3 times pixels
Azure Mystery
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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Azure Mystery
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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post #6 of 15
A single 360mm radiator is going to be basically identical performance to 3x 120mm radiators, only you'll have extra restriction in the loop, causing a lower flow rate. You're better off with a single large radiator, rather than multiple small radiators, given that they're the same size. With that said, more is better to a point, a 360 and a 120 is going to perform better than just a 360. You'll hit diminishing returns at some point that makes it not worth adding further, though.
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Samsung F4 XSPC Rasa cpu block 2x XSPC Razor 460 Black Ice GTX 360 
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MCP-350 Windows 7 64bit Samsung SyncMaster SA300 23" Filco Majestouch "Otaku" Tenkeyless 
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Samsung F4 XSPC Rasa cpu block 2x XSPC Razor 460 Black Ice GTX 360 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
MCP-350 Windows 7 64bit Samsung SyncMaster SA300 23" Filco Majestouch "Otaku" Tenkeyless 
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post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
see with my case though i dont have any fans that are close together. http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/ProductHtml/image/VM20001W2Z/AirCoolingSystem.jpg they all are 120 (with an optional one of either 120 or 200) and they arent next to each other. so im wondering would it be more cost efficient if i bought 3 or 4 single 120 rads or a new case that can fit a 360 or 480 rad inside. it does have a hole to let the tubing go outside where i could probally mount a rad mount but idk how well that would work plus its extra money still. so got any suggestions? once again i dont have a set budget but i dont have to be paying well over 500 for this loop including gpu block cpu block rad(s) pump resivior tubing and liquid
Azure Mystery
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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razer naga purepwnage gaming pad!  mini fridge my computer sits on 
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Azure Mystery
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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razer naga purepwnage gaming pad!  mini fridge my computer sits on 
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post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
also this is what i was talking about for externally mounting. http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12506/ex-rad-208/XSPC_RSRX_120mm_Series_Radiator_Stand_-_Powder_Coated_Black.html
i think that if i mounted a 360 rad ontop of my case with this and i could either screw it into the top of case or just run down to home depo and get some double sided gorilla tape and then a small block for it to be screwed into so it wont move. or i could attach it to the side of my case. idk. but think that would work? then i also could leave my internal fans alone keeping my 7 already there increasing the air cooling on the non liquid cooled parts. possibly removing one or 2 for less clutter and the need for more connectors to psu
Azure Mystery
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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razer naga purepwnage gaming pad!  mini fridge my computer sits on 
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Azure Mystery
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2600k i7 msi p67 gd 43 7970 8 gig dual channel corsair vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
old!!! upgrading soon Corsair H60 push pull after market fans 7 case fans stolen win 7 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3 1920x1080 Logitech g15 azzatech 1000w armor a60 thermaltak 
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razer naga purepwnage gaming pad!  mini fridge my computer sits on 
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post #9 of 15
You should be able to mount a 240mm radiator internally in the top of your case, and then find somewhere to mount a 120mm, if you're interested in keeping it all internal without major modifications. It will cost slightly more than buying a 360mm rad, but the practical difference is negligible. Alternatively, use something like this to mount the radiator externally in the rear, hanging off the 120mm exhaust fan port on the back.
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i7 860 Gigabyte P55A-UD4P 2x EVGA GTX460 2x 4gb Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung F4 XSPC Rasa cpu block 2x XSPC Razor 460 Black Ice GTX 360 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
MCP-350 Windows 7 64bit Samsung SyncMaster SA300 23" Filco Majestouch "Otaku" Tenkeyless 
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(18 items)
 
  
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i7 860 Gigabyte P55A-UD4P 2x EVGA GTX460 2x 4gb Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung F4 XSPC Rasa cpu block 2x XSPC Razor 460 Black Ice GTX 360 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
MCP-350 Windows 7 64bit Samsung SyncMaster SA300 23" Filco Majestouch "Otaku" Tenkeyless 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX850W v1 NZXT Whisper Logitech Performance MX Altec Lansing ATP3 
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post #10 of 15
The more smaller radiators you will have, the stronger pump you will need.
This is the simplest explanation I can come around about poll ?
Bakunawa
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Bakunawa
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EK-Supreme HF Full nickel EK-MOSFET ASUS P8P67 - EN (Nickel) EK-FC6990 Nickel EK-RAM Dominator - EN (Nickel) 
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EK-CoolStream RAD XTX (360) EK-CoolStream RAD XTC (140) Win7 Wanting Samsung S27A950D 
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