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echo "The `uname` Club" (NEW POLL) - Page 122

Poll Results: How long have you been using your current, main installation?

 
  • 24% (50)
    less then a month
  • 23% (47)
    less then six months
  • 14% (30)
    less then a year
  • 24% (49)
    less then three years
  • 13% (27)
    three years+
203 Total Votes  
post #1211 of 4043
Petty humans! devil.gif
post #1212 of 4043
Thread Starter 
I was wondering if you might help with a tmux/urxvt problem:



when I go prefix+" it works fine, when I go prefix+% I get that little yellow box in urxvt and the window doesn't split. This doesn't happen in mate or gnome terminals, or xterm, just urxvt. I've tried changing the prefix, hasn't helped the problem.
post #1213 of 4043
It's the %, bind it to something else tongue.gif
post #1214 of 4043
Thread Starter 
and to do that I do:

unbind %
then set something
bind something something

kookoo.gif

also, one more question. When in the shell (no x) (dash) tumx will open and it's bar is right there, but it won't spilt the screen. I thought it could do that with out x, does it need x in order to do that?
post #1215 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

Even with being able to migrate the packages, why?
You have to look at the age of both RPMs and Debian. Back when Debian was released, RPMs were total garbage and largely only worked on Redhat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

If all distros were completely compatible, Linux would be much more commercial. Hence why Steam is only officially supported on Ubuntu. It can work 100% fine in Ubuntu, but not other distros because of different kernels, different xorg versions, or different video drivers.
Works fine on Arch in spite of those things. Plus it's the same kernel, just different versions. This it's also the same video drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

Nothing is universally supported with Linux. That is the problem.
Most source code is. What you're talking about is binary compatibility, and that's a completely different issue (dependency hell).
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

It isn't even completely POSIX compliant anymore.
GNU isn't bothered about POSIX compliance, hence why there's LSB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

In this situation, choice(which Linux has plenty of) is impeding progress.
At times, yes. But at other times it accelerates progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

Going forward, software companies are picking Ubuntu to develop support around. Valve will just be the first. My guess is whatever Blizzard game they are making for Linux will only be supported on Ubuntu as well.
But that's my whole point, if Ubuntu do their own thing then that's more harmful for everyone else as that software would no longer be compatible with the rest of Linux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

I would rather have an in-house piece of software than something more hobby-ish.
But that's the problem, most of Canonical's output IS hobbyish compared to the FOSS code contributed by the wider community.
post #1216 of 4043
Quote:
GNU isn't bothered about POSIX compliance, hence why there's LSB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base

Exactly why this isn't a big deal with me. Ask the Unix people how they feel about Linux not being POSIX compliant anymore when applications that work on Linux should also be easily portable to other POSIX systems. So it isn't compatible with Wayland, alright. Not the first time Linux or other open source projects broke compatibility.
Quote:
But that's the problem, most of Canonical's output IS hobbyish compared to the FOSS code contributed by the wider community.

I don't mean hobbyish in terms of efficiency, I mean in terms of interfacing and support. If a major company that can help you in a market suggests a change to help them better interface with you, even if the change is dumb, you have two choices. Do it anyway and keep track so you can implement it in a better way later (commercial development). Basically flip them off and tell them that is a stupid idea (hobby development).

And yes, I was referring to binary compatibility, which other systems already have. Open source on a lot of thing isn't happening. Especially the Nvidia and ATI drivers. Not only are there probably copyrighted/patented third party pieces of code in there, but it is also a competitive advantage. No company that invests millions in driver code to get a 20-30% advantage in performance is going to open source their drivers so the competition can see what they did. You have to roll with it.

I am a little surprised they didn't fork Wayland, but as far as I know it is written in a different programming language (c vs c++) and has slightly different goals.
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post #1217 of 4043
Thread Starter 
^as I've mentioned before, while wayland uses a couple linuxisms, the end goal is wider compatibility
post #1218 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

Exactly why this isn't a big deal with me. Ask the Unix people how they feel about Linux not being POSIX compliant anymore when applications that work on Linux should also be easily portable to other POSIX systems. So it isn't compatible with Wayland, alright. Not the first time Linux or other open source projects broke compatibility.
To be fair, there are a lot of complaints about how Linux developers are specifically targeting Linux and making it harder for those apps to be ported to other POSIX systems (eg FreeBSD).
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

And yes, I was referring to binary compatibility, which other systems already have. Open source on a lot of thing isn't happening. Especially the Nvidia and ATI drivers. Not only are there probably copyrighted/patented third party pieces of code in there, but it is also a competitive advantage. No company that invests millions in driver code to get a 20-30% advantage in performance is going to open source their drivers so the competition can see what they did. You have to roll with it.
Binary compatibility is a separate topic and not really to do with the different distros being different. The problem is Linux binaries (ELF files) call specific library version numbers (in fact Windows executables (PE files) do the same). But because Linux only ships the latest set of libraries (read: latest for that repository for that distro), it means that a binary compiled against one version of the library will not work against another version of the library (not entirely true as you can work around it, but that's the crux of the issue from an end user perspective). As every distro tends to ship at their own rates (eg Debian; slow releases, Arch; bleeding edge) and even the different packages from within the same repository can cross different time frames (eg newer versions of popular software because they have active maintainers; but older versions of niche software because they don't have maintainers); well basically you end up in a situation where you cannot guarantee that a binary will have the correct dependency versions when copying it from one Linux install to another. This is where package managers come into their own and why you often hear about "dependency hell" when talking about issues with Linux in yesteryear.

Of cource, you can work around all of this - if you know what you're doing. But it's a painful process and definitely not recommended unless you're already a seasoned Linux administrator.

As for the drivers point. The reason ATI & Nvidia haven't open sourced their drivers is because they're worried it might leak the design of their chipsets. They don't care about whether people see the source of the drivers themselves as their sales comes from the hardware and the performance largely come from the hardware. But if competitors can glean information about the hardware architecture from reading the source code; well that has a potential to directly impact their hardware sales.
post #1219 of 4043
Quote:
I think Mir isa good thing provided it is compatible with things other than Ubuntu

please.fix.grammar

thank.you biggrin.gif
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post #1220 of 4043
Thread Starter 
^ can't edit poll without removing it
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