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echo "The `uname` Club" (NEW POLL) - Page 209

Poll Results: How long have you been using your current, main installation?

 
  • 24% (50)
    less then a month
  • 23% (47)
    less then six months
  • 14% (30)
    less then a year
  • 24% (49)
    less then three years
  • 13% (27)
    three years+
203 Total Votes  
post #2081 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

The Linus quote wasn't related to any points you were making. It was just a rant about how Lennart broke udev.

Quote:
Originally Posted by earlier post 
Originally Posted by LinusTorvalds, 2012
Stop this crazy. FIX UDEV ALREADY, DAMMIT.

Who maintains udev these days? Is it Lennart/Kai, as part of systemd?
Feel free to google additional quotes from Linus and many other deep devs on systemd. I have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

So what you're basically saying is your imagination is a more trustworthy source of information than the personal accounts those who actually work for Redhat? rolleyes.gif

OMG Plan9 still having a bad day? So you think I imagined hostile takeovers and dirty tricks in most corporations? It's fairly easy to see. Just follow the money and look for what they can possibly hope to gain. That's called "deductive reasoning", not imagination...or do you suppose IBM put up another Billion Dollars out of the kindness of their hearts? or RedHat is somehow above the need to satisfy stockholders. And, yeah, like middle management, let alone the IT guys at RedHat are privy to boardroom strategy. Pffffff!
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post #2082 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post


Who maintains udev these days? Is it Lennart/Kai, as part of systemd?
And I repeat, that doesn't prove your conspiracy theory. All that proves is that systemd introduced regression bugs which hasn't been fixed. Anyone with half a brain will know that massive changes to core subsystems often carries regression bugs and Linus does have a right to get annoyed that those bugs aren't being addressed, however you cannot use that as proof that there's some secret conspiracy going on at Redhat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

That's called "deductive reasoning"
No it's not. It's called jumping to conclusions then ignoring anyone who actually does know what they're talking about because you're too busy being pigheaded. If you want to argue "deductive reasoning" then you have to look at all the facts - even those that challenge you're initial assumptions.

And for the record, I do know how businesses work. In fact I often make the same complaints you're raising when I talk about Canonical. However you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about when it comes to Redhat (nor systemd, file streams nor most other things related to Linux / UNIX, it seems).
post #2083 of 4043
You know what, if you don't believe me then here's some stats:
02DataFlowGatekeepers3-1390852968496.jpg
(source: http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/whos-writing-linux)

Redhat totally dominates here. Why would a company wanting to write a closed ecosystem contribute more than double to Linux than the Linux Foundation does? They could just as easily contribute next to nothing like Canonical do: git.kernel.org. If you check what's been submitted, they're all pretty much single lines rather than any functional changes.

Now how about some personal accounts from former Redhat employees:
Quote:
It was a really great place to work. I can't speak for now, although I'm sure it hasn't changed much, but back then, the corporate culture was excellent, very transparent and excellent communication on all levels. The company really is built on, and lives by its ideals. I loved every minute of working there. If you want to work on Open Source, definitely the company to work at.
(source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7169598)

In short, enorbet2, you're prejudices are inaccurate, unfounded and just plain ignorant.
Edited by Plan9 - 2/7/14 at 9:01am
post #2084 of 4043
None of what you posted proves anything of your argument or disproves anything of mine. Face it, Plan9, you weren't having a bad day. You're always grumpy and spoiling for a fight even if you have to fabricate one. Notice that immediately your "argument" became personal attacks. Weak, dude...weak.
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post #2085 of 4043
gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif

Edit: Funny that I just noticed the Ubuntu sticker on the monitor too, lol
post #2086 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

None of what you posted proves anything of your argument or disproves anything of mine.
If you're not willing to accept the testimony from people who work at Redhat when commenting about Redhat, then you can't really claim to be using "reasoning" to arrive at your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

Face it, Plan9, you weren't having a bad day. You're always grumpy and spoiling for a fight even if you have to fabricate one.
No. What actually happened was you posted a whole load of BS about Redhat and systemd, then assumed that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just spoiling for a fight. The reality was you just posted a whole load of BS about Redhat and systemd and people disagreed with you.

Again, Occam's Razor. Not everything in life has subtext behind it. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

Notice that immediately your "argument" became personal attacks. Weak, dude...weak.
I didn't make personal attacks but I was condescending. And it wasn't immediately either. If you re-read the conversation back you'll see that my condescension didn't happen until half way through our discussion when you made it abundantly clear you had no idea what you were talking about. I mean you were talking about binary blobs as if Linux and Unix is somehow incompatible with any data type that isn't ASCII strings. Surely even you can appreciate that you're arguments at that point became so tenuous that you were departing from reality.

I honestly do think you're a decent enough sysadmin and that generally you do know what you're talking about, but today you just went completely off the ball. After all, you'd be regularly using binary file streams in a way which directly counter some of your arguments today. So your comments regarding systemd wouldn't even be accurate for the way how you personally do your job, let alone correct for the point you were trying to make about UNIX / Linux.

As for the Redhat debate, I still think you're desperately looking for maths behind randomness (metaphorically speaking). But since you're not interested in the personal accounts of Redhat employees where as I value their testimonies highly, there clearly isn't a gnat's chance in hell that either of us are going to see eye-to-eye on the topic.
Edited by Plan9 - 2/7/14 at 10:16am
post #2087 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif
    
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post #2088 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif

Edit: Funny that I just noticed the Ubuntu sticker on the monitor too, lol

Like the picture. Why are you two even "arguing" you both gave your opinion just leave it at that.
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post #2089 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by cones View Post

Like the picture. Why are you two even "arguing" you both gave your opinion just leave it at that.

Because, like most internet arguments, the discussion has (d)evolved during the course of the day. Different points raised, goal posts moved, etc. Though I do think we've now reached a impasse and thus a natural conclusion to the debate smile.gif
Edited by Plan9 - 2/7/14 at 10:21am
post #2090 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Because, like most internet arguments, the discussion has (d)evolved during the course of the day. Different points raised, goal posts moved, etc. Though I do think we've now reached a impasse and thus a natural conclusion to the debate smile.gif

Hence why I was using argument loosely.
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