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Poll Results: How long have you been using your current, main installation?

 
  • 24% (50)
    less then a month
  • 23% (47)
    less then six months
  • 14% (30)
    less then a year
  • 24% (49)
    less then three years
  • 13% (27)
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203 Total Votes  
post #2101 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.Teacup View Post

Why is everything browser based such a resource hog?

Because it's crap technology build on a heavy layer of about 500 other software stacks.

It's like building a house of cards and then trying to place an elephant at the top.
post #2102 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.Teacup View Post

Why is everything browser based such a resource hog?

It is rumored that way back in Win95 days Bill Gates was surfing the web on Netscape and suddenly freaked out because he realized that a web browser behaves much like an operating system and it can be cross-platform so people wouldn't need Win95, and thus Internet Explorer ("integrated" into Win98) was born and soon appeared free everywhere, including in bags of CDs on doorknobs. It's a wonder it wasn't included in cereal boxes.

He had good reason to freak out because Java was just getting started and it, Flash and other plugins furthered the cause of cross-platform functionality. To Billy's credit he was right and the drastic action put IE in the lead, but also forced the decision on Netscape/Mozilla's part to go Open Source. I don't think he figured on that. However browsers, not to mention plugins have really high overhead, largely because of all the necessary layers, so he may have freaked a little more than warranted. He may have jumped from the "frying pan into the fire".

There may be light at the end of the tunnel though since it looks like Java (notoriously slow and insecure) is all but dead on the web and Flash's days are numbered as well. HTML5 has considerable promise to do all they did and far more "natively" to the web. Browsers have HTML5 capability built-in instead of layered like an extension or addon. At least the ones that support it do. If you haven't tried it out yet, go HERE and check it out. It's easy to disable if you don't like it but most people find it much smoother.
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post #2103 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I wanted an Arch system installed quickly, so I thought I'd give ArchBang a try. What a waste of time that was. Audio not working, pacman-key not set up correctly, SSD not aligned, etc. And because of the last issue, I'm going to have to reinstall anyway. rolleyes.gif

Vanilla Arch ISO it is....

This is what I always try to tell people. Arch off-shoots ( or really any distro off-shoot ) tend to cause more problems than they are worth.

Part of the reason I built my own Arch ISO back in the day, built specifically for all of my machines. Already set up with everything I want in my systems.
post #2104 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaero252 View Post

It's actually one of Pipelight's features; its original purpose was to get just the Silverlight browser plugin working in that manner, but since Silverlight is a pretty heavy browser plugin, it turns out its pretty universal:
http://fds-team.de/cms/pipelight-installation.html#section_2
Silverlight, Flash, Shockwave, Unity3d, Widevine for a short list - in theory it should work with more; you can easily enable additional plugins aside from Silverlight with the terminal command "pipelight-plugin"

For example:
Code:
sudo pipelight-plugin --enable flash

Mostly this is useful for those running FireFox on Linux, like myself - the native plugin is quite dated, and the Firefox internal plugin isn't quite ready for primetime. The Windows plugin via Pipelight works like a dream on Intel graphics, haven't tried running it over bumblebee yet, but I don't see why it would be a problem.

Should have been updated recently...I got one just a week ago IIRC because there was another flash exploit found and so Adobe waffled on their whole "we stopped updating Flash on Linux in 2010/2011/2012 so suck it" mentality.


@Plan9 & Shrak:
I guess Archbang maintainers aren't up to date with things? I thought by now every distro was supposed to come with auto alignment? Personally, I'd love if Arch had a setup for install more like the buntu net/mini iso (which reminded me more of Slackware's installer which I found really easy to deal with).
     
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post #2105 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

@Plan9 & Shrak:
I guess Archbang maintainers aren't up to date with things? I thought by now every distro was supposed to come with auto alignment? Personally, I'd love if Arch had a setup for install more like the buntu net/mini iso (which reminded me more of Slackware's installer which I found really easy to deal with).

Arch is already easy to install. Not necessarily in order but just off the top of my head

1. Set up partition(s);
2. Mount partition(s) and create file system(s) ( mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdX && mount /dev/sdX /mnt )
3. Install base and base-devel ( pacstrap -i /mnt base base-devel )
4. Genereate fstab ( genfstab -p -L /mnt >> /mnt/etc/fstab ) and ramdisk ( mkinitcpio -p linux );
5. Chroot in ( arch-chroot /mnt /bin/bash ); Great script to make things easier and quicker that's included;
6. Set up your very few configs ( locale, lang, time, hostname, etc ); this ones easy enough as they're listed in the arch beginners guide or my guide here;
7. Install the bootloader ( grub-install /dev/sda ) or whichever you wish to use;
8. Install Xorg, Sudo and your desired Window Manager or Desktop Environment;
9. Set up user ( useradd -m -g users -G audio,lp,optical,storage,video,wheel,games,power -s /bin/bash shrak ); just the basic groups there;

Reboot and Enjoy. Nothing hard about it at all, and easier once you know the commands. Aside from downloading the base package it shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes for the rest of the stuff, and if you have a decent mirror near you and a good line in then the download should be fairly quick too. Definitely quicker than most GUI installers out there tongue.gif
Edited by Shrak - 2/8/14 at 8:40am
post #2106 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Arch is already easy to install. Not necessarily in order but just off the top of my head

1. Set up partition(s);
2. Mount partition(s) and create file system(s) ( mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdX && mount /dev/sdX /mnt )
3. Install base and base-devel ( pacstrap -i /mnt base base-devel )
4. Genereate fstab ( genfstab -p -L /mnt >> /mnt/etc/fstab ) and ramdisk ( mkinitcpio -p linux );
5. Chroot in ( arch-chroot /mnt /bin/bash ); Great script to make things easier and quicker that's included;
6. Set up your very few configs ( locale, lang, time, hostname, etc ); this ones easy enough as they're listed in the arch beginners guide or my guide here;
7. Install the bootloader ( grub-install /dev/sda ) or whichever you wish to use;
8. Install Xorg, Sudo and your desired Window Manager or Desktop Environment;
9. Set up user ( useradd -m -g users -G audio,lp,optical,storage,video,wheel,games,power -s /bin/bash shrak ); just the basic groups there;

Reboot and Enjoy. Nothing hard about it at all, and easier once you know the commands. Aside from downloading the base package it shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes for the rest of the stuff, and if you have a decent mirror near you and a good line in then the download should be fairly quick too. Definitely quicker than most GUI installers out there tongue.gif

I'm not saying that can't be easy once you learn. It's just there's a lot of things that I think are universally understood as used by the majority of users that it doesn't setup for you when it could...like the groups and to be honest doing things like setting time, local, and so on are faster in a GUI (I guess you consider ncurses text prompts a GUI as well?). Like I've said for years there still isn't a distro that seems to understand the cut off point of reason between giving the user control over the system and making them do generally pointless things. I'm making it clear that I find Arch, Gentoo, and Slackware methods of manually setting things up to the degrees that they each make you do valuable for people with the inclination and the desire to still learn more about their systems and all; but maybe it's just me....but there still is the missing niche between that and letting the user get to the more direct things they interact with and/or care about like the actual packages and all. I understand I'm probably failing at explaining my view because it's hard for me to get at it as I'm just not as familiar with terms like you guys (hence why even during Slackware I basically installed a crap load I probably didn't need because I didn't understand the explanations they gave of things).


PS: The GUI isos of buntu always take a long time if you install them after the first month/batch of updates as they are so slow fetching updates in install. Hence why I don't use them after that time and just grab the mini iso to install only what I want and have it fetch the latest packages right away without spending time to update.
     
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post #2107 of 4043
Fixing the stuff ArchBang got wrong would have taken more knowledge than following the Beginners Guide on the Arch Wiki (which is all I ever do when installing Arch)
post #2108 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post


(hence why even during Slackware I basically installed a crap load I probably didn't need because I didn't understand the explanations they gave of things).

Actually that is rather unlikely as the recommended Slackware Way is to install everything in the release. The reason for this is because the developers plan for optimum compatibility and stability as a holistic system and this means SlackBuild packages don't require any work or changes for dependencies because they are already in there. What is very different about Slackware install is that there is a specific section that asks you what services/daemons you would like to start at startup, since almost all default to "off" so there is no bloat effect.

Often newcomers choose not to do the recommended full install and then find themselves unnecessarily hassling over dependencies. Then they assume Slackware is too much work, when the opposite is actually true. I don't know if this happened to you, Rookie1337, but if it did I suggest you revisit and try the recommended way and use Alien Bob's Slackbuilds for any extras you want.
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post #2109 of 4043
Really all anyone needs to do, to be quite honest tongue.gif

The Beginners Guide is basically about as spoon fed as it can get with exactly what to do, plus explanations about what it's does and different options when available. I mean really, it can't get any easier. People make it out to be some scary thing to type a few commands in to install the system.
post #2110 of 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Should have been updated recently...I got one just a week ago IIRC because there was another flash exploit found and so Adobe waffled on their whole "we stopped updating Flash on Linux in 2010/2011/2012 so suck it" mentality.


@Plan9 & Shrak:
I guess Archbang maintainers aren't up to date with things? I thought by now every distro was supposed to come with auto alignment? Personally, I'd love if Arch had a setup for install more like the buntu net/mini iso (which reminded me more of Slackware's installer which I found really easy to deal with).
They only support it for the purpose of fixing security vulnerabilities - not for updating functionality, improving performance and compatibility or anything else to my understanding; and the Windows plugin works better via Pipelight than the native plugin for me. YMMV obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

This is what I always try to tell people. Arch off-shoots ( or really any distro off-shoot ) tend to cause more problems than they are worth.

Part of the reason I built my own Arch ISO back in the day, built specifically for all of my machines. Already set up with everything I want in my systems.

The only Arch off-shoot I've ever found to be worth a damn was Cinnarch - they did things right. The configuration work in the background was spot-on, no missing or incomplete conf files, all dependencies properly resolved - a very polished feel to it; the only thing I didn't like there was their choice of GUI frontend for Pacman/Yaourt - and that was as easy as removing that and installing a new one. They have since changed their name and provide an installer that allows the user to select which GUIland they prefer and configures it for them. I haven't tried it since that move, so it could be terrible now. For those interested:
http://antergos.com/

The team is pretty small, so updates to the install image are generally just to update compatibility with Arch's repos - they are still finishing parts of their GUI installer, but its mostly done.

Here's a preview of their installer:
netctl.png


Edit:
I was right on the money with the flash player:
"Windows and Mac users of versions 12.0.0.43 and earlier should update to version 12.0.0.44. Users of Flash Player 11.2.202.335 and earlier versions for Linux should update to version 11.2.202.336. Adobe has also released a patched version 11.7.700.261 for Windows and Mac."
Linux is still stuck at 11.2, while Windows and Mac have moved to 12.x
Edited by Xaero252 - 2/8/14 at 1:10pm
    
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