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What is CPU "VID"

post #1 of 12
4/2/12 at 4:03pm
Thread Starter 
Hey another question from me.

So far, I have gotten my 2600k to run at 4.5GHz @ 1.325V

Everything is nice and stable and things are looking good.


Now, I looked a RealTemp the other day and I noticed a value that was very high, it was VID.

After a little research I found mixed results and I am looking for a straight answer. People said it's the actual amount of voltage the CPU is using, which I don't understand because I clearly forced my CPU to use 1.325V no more, no less. (Alright perhaps give or take a few but you know what I mean)

So what is this VID thing? Does it matter? How does it influence the life of my CPU? I was also told this was the "recommended power" the CPU needed to function at the clock speed, which just confused me but regardless, I would like an answer because I don't think that 1.39 VID is good.


Does VID even matter or is it just a hypothetical number that was made by the motherboard or CPU that states "This is the voltage I want?"



Here's a pic for you to asses:

338

(In case you can't see it's 1.3911 VID)


Looking forward to hearing your responses!
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post #2 of 12
4/2/12 at 4:17pm
I hope that someone will correct me if I am wrong here, this is my understanding of what it is supposed to be, though I think that what gets reported is sometimes wrong.

Your processor has a load line that is Mhz vs voltage that is programmed into the chip, For every frequency you processor can run at, a voltage is assigned. Higher frequencies require a higher voltage than lower frequencies. It is this voltage that is the VID, and it depends on the frequency the processor is running at. The Processor tells the Voltage Regulator on the Motherboard what voltage to run at.

When you choose an absolute Vcore for the processor to run at in BIOS, you throw away the VID and run it at what you specified and at full frequency.

When you choose offset mode for Vcore, the offset (+ or -) is relative to the programmed VID and hence follows the load line as you change frequency. In this mode you can use power savings to reduce the frequency that the processor runs when not under load, and Vcore will follow the load line for the voltage adjusted by the offset. You can't do this using an absolute value for Vcore.
Edited by GeneO - 4/2/12 at 4:20pm
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post #3 of 12
4/2/12 at 4:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

I hope that someone will correct me if I am wrong here, this is my understanding of what it is supposed to be, though I think that what gets reported is sometimes wrong.
Your processor has a load line that is Mhz vs voltage that is programmed into the chip, For every frequency you processor can run at, a voltage is assigned. Higher frequencies require a higher voltage than lower frequencies. It is this voltage that is the VID, and it depends on the frequency the processor is running at.
When you choose an absolute Vcore for the processor to run at in BIOS, you throw away the VID and run it at what you specified and at full frequency.
When you choose offset mode for Vcore, the offset (+ or -) is relative to the programmed VID and hence follows the load line as you change frequency. In this mode you can use power savings to reduce the frequency that the processor runs when not under load, and Vcore will foloww the load line for the voltage adjusted by the offset, You can't do this using an absolute value for Vcore.

Alright so does that mean if I have it set to manual mode (Which I feel more comfortable with for benching/gaming) the VID does not play a role in the voltage of my CPU correct? Therefore the CPU is still running at the voltage I assigned it at?

So in my case it isn't something to worry about correct?
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post #4 of 12
4/2/12 at 4:34pm
Correct
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post #5 of 12
4/2/12 at 4:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Correct

Thank's for the help. +REP


Anyone else got some input on this? Or did he nail it? (I get the feeling he did, but I just want to make sure tongue.gif)
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post #6 of 12
4/2/12 at 4:43pm
VID is just voltage identifier. If the load line aren't tampered with, this is the maximum voltage the CPU will see at that setting, there is vdrop, a small offset for the idle voltage, and vdroop, based on a load line spcification that lowers voltage as current goes up. VCC is the actual voltage delivered, and the load line causes this to differ from VID by design.

vcore settings in the BIOS is synonymous with VID, unless you turn on LLC or use offset voltages.

These explain things in more detail:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/5

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2727/evga-x58-classified-first-look/6
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post #7 of 12
4/2/12 at 4:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

VID is just voltage identifier. If the load line aren't tampered with, this is the maximum voltage the CPU will see at that setting, there is vdrop, a small offset for the idle voltage, and vdroop, based on a load line spcification that lowers voltage as current goes up. VCC is the actual voltage delivered, and the load line causes this to differ from VID by design.
vcore settings in the BIOS is synonymous with VID, unless you turn on LLC or use offset voltages.
These explain things in more detail:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/5
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2727/evga-x58-classified-first-look/6

Alright I am beginning to understand more and more. So in the end if the CPU voltages have been modified by me then VID will not play a role in the amount of voltage that is delivered to the CPU correct? That is my main concern.

VID is just the maximum voltage that can be drawn in the scenario, however since I have already pre-determined the voltages it won't actually exceed the ones that were inputted in the BIOS?
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post #8 of 12
4/2/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millz59 View Post

Alright I am beginning to understand more and more. So in the end if the CPU voltages have been modified by me then VID will not play a role in the amount of voltage that is delivered to the CPU correct? That is my main concern.
VID is just the maximum voltage that can be drawn in the scenario, however since I have already pre-determined the voltages it won't actually exceed the ones that were inputted in the BIOS?

I don;t think it is the maximum voltage at the given frequency, but the middle of the load line with a tolerance above and below it.

Yes you are correct, if you set a manual Vcore in the BIOS, it will override the VID.
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post #9 of 12
4/2/12 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millz59 View Post

Alright I am beginning to understand more and more. So in the end if the CPU voltages have been modified by me then VID will not play a role in the amount of voltage that is delivered to the CPU correct? That is my main concern.
VID is just the maximum voltage that can be drawn in the scenario, however since I have already pre-determined the voltages it won't actually exceed the ones that were inputted in the BIOS?

Not exactly.

VID = voltage limit you set in BIOS, same as "vcore" or CPU voltage, or whatever, unless you use LLC, or offet voltages.

VCC = actual voltage delivered. Less than VID. Less than set voltage unless you alter or disable the load line with a feature like load-line calibration.

You can manually set the VID just by changing vcore while leaving other features disabled, this will leave the Intel specified loadline intact, just at a VID different from the stock one. Loadlines exist to prevent transient voltage spikes from exceeding the specified VID during rapid load changes. If you do change the loadline with LLC, chances are that the voltage you set, will be exceeded during these transient spikes, even if they happen too quickly for you to measure.

This is the key argument against LLC. With LLC you have no way of knowing (outside of using a high frequency oscilloscope) what voltages are actually being delivered to the chip. With LLC disable and normal vdroop intact, you can be assured that voltage delivered to the chip will never exceed the VID you have set.

Even robust VRMs cannot always alter a loadline on the fly quickly enough to compensate for droop or spikes, which means there is more potential for instability at the same load voltage.

Confusion comes from the usage of the term VID to mean stock VID, which every chip has. This isn't technically correct though, since VID can indeed be manually set/overridden.
Edited by Blameless - 4/2/12 at 5:14pm
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post #10 of 12
4/2/12 at 5:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Not exactly.
VID = voltage limit you set in BIOS, same as "vcore" or CPU voltage, or whatever, unless you use LLC, or offet voltages.
VCC = actual voltage delivered. Less than VID. Less than set voltage unless you alter or disable the load line with a feature like load-line calibration.
You can manually set the VID just by changing vcore while leaving other features disabled, this will leave the Intel specified loadline intact, just at a VID different from the stock one. Loadlines exist to prevent transient voltage spikes from exceeding the specified VID during rapid load changes. If you do change the loadline with LLC, chances are that the voltage you set, will be exceeded during these transient spikes, even if they happen too quickly for you to measure.
This is the key argument against LLC. With LLC you have no way of knowing (outside of using a high frequency oscilloscope) what voltages are actually being delivered to the chip. With LLC disable and normal vdroop intact, you can be assured that voltage delivered to the chip will never exceed the VID you have set.
Even robust VRMs cannot always alter a loadline on the fly quickly enough to compensate for droop or spikes, which means there is more potential for instability at the same load voltage.
Confusion comes from the usage of the term VID to mean stock VID, which every chip has. This isn't technically correct though, since VID can indeed be manually set/overridden.

I see, so essentially that 1.39 isn't something to be concerned about? I am not using offset and I haven't messed around with LLC.... and I have set voltage to 1.325 in bios. Everything else is pretty much where it should be.
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