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[MPC]Leaked AMD Trinity Slide Promises Big Gains Over Llano APUs - Page 3

post #21 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

So, the CPU part is still more or less the same as Bulldozer. Sorry, there is no way around that.
From the 3 Ghz A8 3870K to the 3.8 Ghz A10 5800K the difference is 26.6% higher clockspeed + Turbo Core, which is something the 3870K doesn't have. They are claiming a 29% increase in productivity performance, whatever that means, so almost all, if not all of the gains are attributable to the higher clockspeed + Turbo Core. This means that with the Trinity improvements they most probably basically only managed to bring the IPC back to the former architecture's level.
Add to that the "Optimized for Windows 8" moniker, which basically means "no, we haven't adressed the architectural flaws, just a few improvements to make it less bad and are relying on a better task scheduler of an OS that still hasn't been released to somehow make us look a little better".
AMD is relying on the newer manufacturing process to raise the clockspeed and make up the difference instead of making the architecture better.
AMD needs help and fast. They have no direction in the desktop market. Intel proved that you don't need to invest lots of money to get higher performance by doing a new manufacturing process and new architecture at the same time like AMD is foolishly trying to do. Intel's tick - tock cycle works. AMD on the other hand is acting like a company that has money to spare but they don't.
They could have saved money by not trasitioning to 32 nm on the CPU right away and investing the money saved on improving the Phenom II architecture. If Intel did it with Nehalem on 45nm, why can't AMD ? I would say even more, Intel could technically very well release Sandy Bridge at 45nm without the GPU. AMD is trying to do everything at the same time (new architecture + new manufacturing process) and they don't have the money to make that work. Not even Intel does that.
The saving grace is that this is good enough for general purpose computers and notebooks and they have good idle power saving technology.
But in the end you need to have a proper flagship, you can't last very long if you don't have something that inspires the desire of the customers. Even car makers do that. Fiat for example owns Ferrari.

One problem with your performance theory: secondary integer cores only get 80% (at most) the performance of the primary integer cores when activated (or more accurately, both integer cores only function at 90% under optimum multi-threaded conditions). In addition, individual integer cores are slightly weaker than Phenom II, these reasons are why a 4-module bulldozer didn't beat the thuban processors by very much.

The previous generation often only managed to increase performance 40% by activating the secondary integer cores. If piledriver has managed to increase usage of the secondary cores, then that's a HUGE improvement. If it has only managed to increase IPC, that's still a HUGE improvement. if it gets much higher clocks within the same power envelope, that's also a HUGE improvement.
post #22 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Intel proved that you don't need to invest lots of money to get higher performance by doing a new manufacturing process and new architecture at the same time like AMD is foolishly trying to do. Intel's tick - tock cycle works. AMD on the other hand is acting like a company that has money to spare but they don't.

Really, Intel didn't spend a lot of money?

Intel source
Full-Year 2011
R&D spending: approximately $7.3 billion.


AMD source
AMD in millions:
Research and
development 358 361 352 1,453 (year ending 2011) 1,405
post #23 of 84
that's not the point i was trying to put across. to all you tech savy guys, all this in-depth architecture analysis and performance numbers might mean something. but to the consumer these processors are directed towards, 99.99% of them aren't even aware of those numbers at all. all they will see is that they are generally faster and have more powerful graphics. that's all those consumers will see and that will be the selling point of these processors.

people saying amd are going in the wrong direction are horribly wrong...they're tapping the biggest consumer market in PC's. llano was just a test really...trinity will be a huge success on AMD's part.
post #24 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyin15sec View Post

Really, Intel didn't spend a lot of money?
Intel source
Full-Year 2011
R&D spending: approximately $7.3 billion.
AMD source
AMD in millions:
Research and
development 358 361 352 1,453 (year ending 2011) 1,405

Why that selective reading of what I wrote ? At least read the whole sentence you quoted.

My point is, if even Intel, as big as it is, does not introduce a new architecture and a new manufacturing process at the same time, it's foolish to think AMD has the resources to do so sucessfully. Intel would probably have to invest even more money than they already do to sucessfully manage that, that is what I meant.
Edited by tpi2007 - 4/4/12 at 7:09pm
 
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post #25 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 
My point is, if even Intel, as big as it is, does not introduce a new architecture and a new manufacturing process at the same time, it's foolish to think AMD has the resources to do so sucessfully.

Well then, you should be happy that Trinity uses the same 32nm node as Llano.
 
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post #26 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Why that selective reading of what I wrote ? At least read the whole sentence you quoted.
My point is, if even Intel, as big as it is, does not introduce a new architecture and a new manufacturing process at the same time, it's foolish to think AMD has the resources to do so sucessfully. Intel would probably have to invest even more money than they already do to sucessfully manage that, that is what I meant.

I did read the whole sentence. On the contrary to what your point is trying say, Intel PROVED that if you throw enough money at something you'll likely be the best at it.

If anything it's AMD that PROVED, you don't have to spend a lot of money to design an innovative new architecture.
Edited by flyin15sec - 4/4/12 at 7:22pm
post #27 of 84
The only way someone could think that their new APU's won't do well is because they've never used one. They have the best price/performance ratio for gaming in the laptop world by far.
    
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post #28 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post

Well then, you should be happy that Trinity uses the same 32nm node as Llano.

Llano was the right approach, it improved upon the Athlon II / Phenom II architecture. From what I recall it has 5% better IPC, but given it only has 1 MB of L2 cache per core (non shared cache), it was designed for the budget market, but that was the right approach: take an existing architecture, introduce a few improvements and transition to a new manufacturing process. That is what Intel does and it works, and it worked very well for AMD too. I'd have no problem suggesting a Llano build for a lot of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyin15sec View Post

I did read the whole sentence. On the contrary to what your point is trying say, Intel PROVED that if you throw enough money at something you'll likely be the best at it.
If anything it's AMD that PROVED, you don't have to spend a lot of money to design an innovative new architecture.

What they should have done was take Thuban, which was already better than Deneb, add the IPC improvements they introduced with the Stars core (Llano), add Turbo Core 3.0 and the new instruction sets, along with higher clockspeeds made possible by the newer manufacturing process. This would have given them a much more balanced CPU, and much lower R&D costs. That module approach is a mistake for current applications, it may work well in servers because the workload is different, and it may work well in the future, but what matters is now. And now we still need more IPC, not an architecture that actually delivers less IPC. I mean, my Q9550 at 3.4 Ghz has a better single threaded score in Cinebench 11.5 than the FX-8150 that has a stock clock of 3.6 Ghz and also has Turbo Core, and so does the AMD Phenom II X4 975 BE that also works at 3.6 Ghz and does not have Turbo Core. See the comparison between both AMD CPUs (Oh, and please don't compare the other results because those two CPUs are in different price brackets, I just picked the FX-8150 because Anandtech doesn't have any other Bulldozer FX CPU in their Bench). If this isn't pathetic I don't know what is. Of course the new Bulldozer CPUs are not all bad, but they are unbalanced. After all these years you should not come to market with a CPU that does some things worse than its predecessor.

AMD did a Pentium 4. Why is it so hard to accept ? Move on. Go back to the architecture you had before that worked pretty well and improve from there. Intel did the same.
Edited by tpi2007 - 4/4/12 at 8:01pm
 
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post #29 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Cool. But this is going into a laptop and is going to cost less then Intel's counter-parts.

and the battery life is way better, from what i have seen as well.
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post #30 of 84
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Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

What they should have done was take Thuban, which was already better than Deneb, add the IPC improvements they introduced with the Stars core (Llano), add Turbo Core 3.0 and the new instruction sets, along with higher clockspeeds made possible by the newer manufacturing process. This would have given them a much more balanced CPU, and much lower R&D costs

Let's see a picture of your electrical engineering degree.
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