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[MPC]Leaked AMD Trinity Slide Promises Big Gains Over Llano APUs - Page 4

post #31 of 84
cant wait to build a low budget gaming desktop from the trinity
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post #32 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post



I see what you did there Mr. 7-Zip.  And you are right, with those future instruction sets it will be more competitive arch, but that being said, its un-competitive in real world performance, take real world meaning market usable software currently and future available.  I am not aware of any major consumer products switching to those ins sets anytime soon, experimenting sure.    

We can be hypothetical all we want, regarding leakage, unfortunately for consumers and the market, the CPU, that was hyped to hell and back was never delivered.

You can blame a foundry for giving AMD delays with bad returns/processes, not for AMD actually releasing the product.  AMD chose to release and market it as is, Global Foundaries is no more responsible for it being the way it is more than you or I are.  I do agree GF has sketchy products, thats not in question.



No one, I believe, is saying it will be a massive flop.  It would be ill advised though to believe these slides, if not for what happened with Bulldozers identical marketing, then for the fact that its just smart and see real actual numbers.

I'm not defending Zambezi. I'm defending Bulldozer. Big difference. Bulldozer has a lot of room to improve. Zambezi's failure is already set in stone.
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post #33 of 84
All we need is JF-AMD to come and clear up everything for us again, then all of you can stop arguing. biggrin.gif

Up to 29% performance increase, with a 26% CLOCK + Turbo increase, am I the only who sees something wrong with this picture?

Anyone remember the infamous...
Quote:
We estimate that customers will see up to 50% more performance from 33% more cores. This means we expect the per core performance to go in the right direction — up. That is all I will say until launch.

I don't know why GF is getting all the flack, and AMD is getting a Pass. AMD was the ORIGINAL GF owner, and they chose to release AND SELL the FX series despite its flaws. Yes, they delayed it, and delayed it, and delayed it, but at the end of the day, they still released it and they should be held accountable for their actions, rather than putting the blame on their former foundry.
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post #34 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

All we need is JF-AMD to come and clear up everything for us again, then all of you can stop arguing. biggrin.gif
Up to 29% performance increase, with a 26% CLOCK + Turbo increase, am I the only who sees something wrong with this picture?
Anyone remember the infamous...
Quote:
We estimate that customers will see up to 50% more performance from 33% more cores. This means we expect the per core performance to go in the right direction — up. That is all I will say until launch.
I don't know why GF is getting all the flack, and AMD is getting a Pass. AMD was the ORIGINAL GF owner, and they chose to release AND SELL the FX series despite its flaws. Yes, they delayed it, and delayed it, and delayed it, but at the end of the day, they still released it and they should be held accountable for their actions, rather than putting the blame on their former foundry.

Well what was AMD going to do? Wait until 2012 to release the FX and have the same outdated CPUs on the market for two and a half years while potential customers flock to Intel? They were in a bad situation and there was simply NO positive way around it. FX may be a junk CPU, but AMD isn't a junk company.
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post #35 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Let's see a picture of your electrical engineering degree.

You don't need to, I was describing what Intel does, and applying it to AMD. In fact, they had already done it partly. Besides, what I said is perfectly feasible and less expensive. Not to mention they wouldn't have to spend time with Microsoft to bring some patches to make the CPU work better. All of that effort is a waste of time, and from what we've seen, the performance improvements with the Windows 7 scheduler updates are minor, they admitted it themselves, and with Windows 8, from what we've seen until now, Intel CPUs also benefit, so AMD can't really claim much relative improvements if the competition also gets a "free" (if you have the new OS, that is) upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

All we need is JF-AMD to come and clear up everything for us again, then all of you can stop arguing. biggrin.gif
Up to 29% performance increase, with a 26% CLOCK + Turbo increase, am I the only who sees something wrong with this picture?
Anyone remember the infamous...
Quote:
We estimate that customers will see up to 50% more performance from 33% more cores. This means we expect the per core performance to go in the right direction — up. That is all I will say until launch.
I don't know why GF is getting all the flack, and AMD is getting a Pass. AMD was the ORIGINAL GF owner, and they chose to release AND SELL the FX series despite its flaws. Yes, they delayed it, and delayed it, and delayed it, but at the end of the day, they still released it and they should be held accountable for their actions, rather than putting the blame on their former foundry.

Yes, people shouldn't forget that piece of recent history. Let's wait for benchmarks and see what the real improvements are.
Edited by tpi2007 - 4/4/12 at 8:26pm
 
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post #36 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Well what was AMD going to do? Wait until 2012 to release the FX and have the same outdated CPUs on the market for two and a half years while potential customers flock to Intel? They were in a bad situation and there was simply NO positive way around it. FX may be a junk CPU, but AMD isn't a junk company.

Oh I understand that, but point is, they still CHOSE to release FX and hyped it up to be the greatest CPU of our time ( I may be exaggerating a little wink.gif ) but you do remember the Bulldozer Blog is Live thread, and JF-AMD's arrogant attitude. No one but AMD should be held accountable for THEIR actions. I'm tired of seeing GF be used as the escape goat, when in reality that was AMD's foundry, so in the end, it boils down to holding AMD accountable.

They knew the chip had issues, hence the many delays, but they still released it, hyped it up to be a great CPU that smashes World Records, etc, etc.

Had they taken a more humble approach, and not overhyped it so much, the devastation would've been lesser. Then again, us informed users are the minority, and AMD knows this all too well. They cater their marketing to the uninformed.

Anyway, care to address my main question?

Up to 29% performance increase, with a 26% CLOCK + Turbo increase, am I the only who sees something wrong with this picture?
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post #37 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


What they should have done was take Thuban, which was already better than Deneb, add the IPC improvements they introduced with the Stars core (Llano), add Turbo Core 3.0 and the new instruction sets, along with higher clockspeeds made possible by the newer manufacturing process. This would have given them a much more balanced CPU, and much lower R&D costs. That module approach is a mistake for current applications, it may work well in servers because the workload is different, and it may work well in the future, but what matters is now. And now we still need more IPC, not an architecture that actually delivers less IPC. I mean, my Q9550 at 3.4 Ghz has a better single threaded score in Cinebench 11.5 than the FX-8150 that has a stock clock of 3.6 Ghz and also has Turbo Core, and so does the AMD Phenom II X4 975 BE that also works at 3.6 Ghz and does not have Turbo Core. See the comparison between both AMD CPUs (Oh, and please don't compare the other results because those two CPUs are in different price brackets, I just picked the FX-8150 because Anandtech doesn't have any other Bulldozer FX CPU in their Bench). If this isn't pathetic I don't know what is. Of course the new Bulldozer CPUs are not all bad, but they are unbalanced. After all these years you should not come to market with a CPU that does some things worse than its predecessor.
AMD did a Pentium 4. Why is it so hard to accept ? Move on. Go back to the architecture you had before that worked pretty well and improve from there. Intel did the same.

I'll have to disagree with this approach. Given the fact that AMD does not have the financial capabilities as it's competitor, they had to choose a path that would best suit both their server and desktop needs. Of course they had to sacrifice certain things, and as you stated, IPC was one of these.

The decrease of IPC at the same clock speed as it's predecessor, I believe, is negated by the module design. The module design is the foundation for all of AMD future processors. The module design is the best feature of Bulldozer.

As it is now, AMD has already switched their strategy. There's no point in going back now to Phenom and tweaking it, that's not reality. Toyota isn't the #1 car company in world because they sold a lot of Lexus models, it's because they sold a lot of middle ground Camrys and Corollas. There might be something to AMDs decision after all.
post #38 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

What they should have done was take Thuban, which was already better than Deneb, add the IPC improvements they introduced with the Stars core (Llano), add Turbo Core 3.0 and the new instruction sets, along with higher clockspeeds made possible by the newer manufacturing process. This would have given them a much more balanced CPU, and much lower R&D costs. That module approach is a mistake for current applications, it may work well in servers because the workload is different, and it may work well in the future, but what matters is now. And now we still need more IPC, not an architecture that actually delivers less IPC.

I do agree with everything here, but there's a slight problem...

I mentioned this same thing - SIX MONTHS AGO:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1140265/why-did-amd-waste-all-their-resources-on-an-architecture-redesign/30#post_15283630

Not only that, but I even had a heated back & forth discussion...FOUR MONTHS AGO:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1188969/xbit-amd-may-be-preparing-phenom-ii-x8-microprocessors/100#post_16025053

Guys, we've had this discussion a million times over now - can't we move on at this point? I mean, we've even already got Piledriver in the form of Trinity launching in just a couple months, which at that point Bulldozer's architecture will be EOL (though the CPU versions of Piledriver won't QUITE be out yet) and all this arguing about it will be like arguing about Conroe - it's an outdated architecture.
Edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 - 4/4/12 at 9:21pm
 
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post #39 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Oh I understand that, but point is, they still CHOSE to release FX and hyped it up to be the greatest CPU of our time ( I may be exaggerating a little wink.gif ) but you do remember the Bulldozer Blog is Live thread, and JF-AMD's arrogant attitude. No one but AMD should be held accountable for THEIR actions. I'm tired of seeing GF be used as the escape goat, when in reality that was AMD's foundry, so in the end, it boils down to holding AMD accountable.
They knew the chip had issues, hence the many delays, but they still released it, hyped it up to be a great CPU that smashes World Records, etc, etc.
Had they taken a more humble approach, and not overhyped it so much, the devastation would've been lesser. Then again, us informed users are the minority, and AMD knows this all too well. They cater their marketing to the uninformed.
Anyway, care to address my main question?
Up to 29% performance increase, with a 26% CLOCK + Turbo increase, am I the only who sees something wrong with this picture?

I'm not defending FX, I'm just saying AMD was in a terrible situation. You were criticizing that they actually released it, not their marketing.

And hey at least they finally got IPC back up to PhII levels redface.gif
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Kalki
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AMD FX-8320 @ 4.73GHz Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Radeon HD 7950 @ 1200/1800 8GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 @ 2000MHz 11-11-11-28-1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M4 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 2TB Seagate Barracuda ST 7200 RPM who cares 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Raystorm XSPC Razor HD 7970 XSPC EX240 Swiftech MCP50X 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Black Ice GT Stealth 240 2x XSPC Xinruilian 1650rpm 2x Yate Loon Slim 1800rpm Alphacool Light Tower 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Gentoo GNU/Linux Dell UltraSharp U2412M CM Storm Trigger MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair AX750 Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech G400 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD OPTERON BULLDOZER 16-CORE 2GHZ (32GHZ TOTAL) ALIENWARE 3+1 PHASE ITX GAMING BOARD 4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 430 32GB GAMING DDR3 800MHZ CL13 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2TB 5400RPM GAMING HDD GAMING BLU RAY BURNER ONE GAMING CASE FAN UBUNTU W/ UNITY (I AM 1337 H4X0R) 
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HD-READY 24" 1366X768 PENTILE TN PANEL GAMING M... ALIENWARE TACTX UBER 1337 BACKLIT RUBBER MEMBRA... OFF-BRAND 200W GAMING PSU; 65% EFFICIENCY  ALIENWARE GAMING CASE WITH THE COOL GLOWING ALIEN 
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ALIENWARE TACTX GAMING MOUSE ALIENWARE MOUSEPAD IT'S DESIGNED FOR GAMING AND... BEATS AUDIO 1337 ALIENWARE TACTX 8-CHANNEL GAMING HEADSET/M... 
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post #40 of 84
IPC is only one factor of many. In the end, performance/watt and performance/mm are the ONLY things that matter.

And guess what? Apparently Piledriver offers up to 29% better performance than Stars at the same core count on the same process at the same wattage.

So we can conclude that Piledriver is a FAR superior architecture. This is excellent progress and I cannot understand why people in this thread have written essays complaining about it.
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