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Chimp Challenge 2012?? - Page 23

post #221 of 314
Juano. You just aren't getting it. It might not be related to folding, but it is the essence of this competition.

Take EVGA, for example. They have masses of people who just come to fold for EVGA bucks. They know that those people aren't going to be easy to convert because they don't care about the competition. They are folding, yes... but not with team spirit. If we get rid of conversion, the people who don't give a hoot about their team or the competition are automatically competing. OF COURSE EVGA wants to get rid of conversion, because they want all the help they can get to WIN THE COMPETITION.

It's just like the TC. All of the people competing there are WILLING. They make an effort to be counted. While they might not change their name, they get a separate passkey... kinda the same thing.

If there's no choice but to participate, then I think we need to examine other options.
post #222 of 314

It's going to a vote between the teams. Could go either way, but I'll update when we have an answer.

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post #223 of 314
Mach1 I've respected both sides of the issue so I don't think it's fair to claim that my differing opinion is because "I just don't get it". Yes I have a opposing opinion to yours and zodac's but it's not because I'm too stupid to see your point of view.
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post #224 of 314
Thread Starter 
I like it, a little on the complex side, but heck it's finally coming together.

I was a little confused and distracted with all of this talk about Cats:
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post #225 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by juano View Post

Mach1 I've respected both sides of the issue so I don't think it's fair to claim that my differing opinion is because "I just don't get it". Yes I have a opposing opinion to yours and zodac's but it's not because I'm too stupid to see your point of view.

147

lachen.gif

I get it.. It'd be soooo extremely easy to just take total team production. If that's the case, let's make the competition year-long!
post #226 of 314

wth.gif

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post #227 of 314

Ok, there's been a change to the format (due to their being too much of a spread of points when the category is bunched up). Rather than equalise the scores on the category by the range (max-min), instead, it'll be done as a % of the max score in that category. It seems a bit fairer, there'll be less 0s, and it's got one less set of calculations. :D

 

(I highlighted the main change in red):

 

 

Quote:

CCC - Categorized Chimp Challenge
All teams compete in a number of categories (performance measures). Lets assume there are three categories and let's call them CAT1, CAT2 and CAT3.
At the end of the competition, each team gets their scores in all categories, and the team with the best overall performance is crowned "King of the Chimps" and receives this year's jaded monkey.

I will now explain how to come up with that "overall performance". Let's work on a 4-Team example:

CAT1 CAT2 CAT3
Team A: 140 Team A: 50 Team A: 30
Team B: 60 Team B: 70 Team B: 60
Team C: 100 Team C: 90 Team C: 10
Team D: 80 Team D: 80 Team D: 40

At this point, the scale of scores in each category is completely different, and this poses a serious concern when you want to put them together in a single score by adding them. For example, in CAT1, Team A has an 80 point advantage over Team B and this spread is impossible to close whatever no matter how well Team B does in other categories.

To remedy this, we will bring all categories to the same scale from 0 (zero) to 100, such that the best team in each category will receive a 100, and the other teams' scores will be scaled accordingly. This way, no single category will have a dominance in the overall score and the categories will be completely balanced.
To this end, first, determine the maximum score within each category:

CAT1 CAT2 CAT3
MAX. 140. 90. 60

Let's call these values MAX1, MAX2, MAX3.

Then, multiply the scores in CAT1 by 100/MAX1, scores in CAT2 by 100/MAX2, and scores in CAT3 by 100/MAX3. This is what you get:

CAT1 CAT2 CAT3
Team A: 100 . Team A: 55.6 Team A: 50
Team B: 42.9 Team B: 77.8 Team B: 100
Team C: 71.4 Team C: 100 Team C: 16.7
Team D: 57.1 Team D: 88.9 Team D: 66.7


The scores can easily be interpreted as "given the best team is 100, how well Team X did in this category". A score of 50, for example means that that team did exactly half as well as the best team.


As a final step, all you have to do is sum up the scores for each team:

FINAL SCORES
Team A: 205.6
Team B: 220.7
Team C: 188.1
Team D: 212.7

Team B wins.

To summarize, what this system does is adjusting the category scores such that each category is between zero and 100. Let's call this adjusted categories ACAT1, ACAT2, and ACAT3.

For a shorthand notation, I will use ACATi, CATi and MAXi for category i, and ACATij, CATij for Team j's scores in category i. Finally, let's call Team j's final score, SCOREj.
The formula can be written as:

SCOREj = ACAT1j + ACAT2j + ACAT3j
where
ACATij = CATij x 100 / MAXi

 

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post #228 of 314
However, Gryphon said this formula favors points heavily a couple of posts later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon of EVGA forums 
I'm not sure guys, I've got bad news frown.gif

The system in #737 looks nice with the dummy data but I ran a few scenarios with real data and the Points category ends up dominating the final score. The reason is once again, the range (or, spread, if you will). The large teams make a huge difference in the Points category and no matter how they suck in the other categories, the gap cannot be closed. So, they really runaway with it. Stamina category, for example, becomes so insignificant because the difference between the teams is incredibly minuscule compared to the difference in other categories. At the end, once again, it comes to how the spread between teams is in different categories. If one category has a wider spread, it dominates the final score. In the current situation, this category is Points, and thus, the large teams are being favored.

This is very concerning for me, and I cannot vouch for the system explained in #737. I was fearing this would happen and I just found the time to confirm it. I very strongly suggest using the system in #671. Although at first sight it may look worse to you, it's the only system that achieves perfect balance between categories.
Emphasis is his, not mine.
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post #229 of 314
Anything new at all on this front? (bump)
post #230 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethy666 View Post

Anything new at all on this front? (bump)

I disagree.
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