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Chimp Challenge 2012?? - Page 7

post #61 of 314
I didn't know multiple passkeys were OK for the race.

An example of the Boost format in a spreadsheet laid out for 10 days, is in post #37 of this thread. wink.gif
post #62 of 314

For the Boost system... I don't understand that.

 

You're trying to make Evga's total*2 from last year? Are you gonna try and include multipliers for the smaller teams as the handicap then?

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post #63 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by zodac View Post

For the Boost system... I don't understand that.

You're trying to make Evga's total*2 from last year? Are you gonna try and include multipliers for the smaller teams as the handicap then?


The Handicapper (me probably), sets the point goal - hopefully that goal will be reached in about 10 days (but the times will vary from year to year, and team to team). It could be set up for a certain number of days, ONLY however. You'd like that better?

The smaller teams are all given boosts in the form of points, right at the start of the race. If EVGA wants to win the race, then EVGA will have to overtake the other teams.

It's like a staggered start in a race. The faster runner is backed up from the finish line, so he/she has to run farther than the other runners.

Every team would have it's own handicap elements that the handicapper would use to try and set the race so every team finishes at the same time - that's the goal of any handicapped race.
Edited by Adak - 4/13/12 at 9:19am
post #64 of 314

However, you still have the same flaw. Smaller teams with smaller targets have it much easier - they need a couple of big Folders to join them, and they run away with things.

 

And if you (or whoever the handicapper is) make one mistake, and mis-judge a single team's capabilities, that would either make one team the favourite, or give them no chance whatsoever. Rather than making this boost, system, a more transparent, easier to understand system, would be different targets for each team.

 

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post #65 of 314
Let me just chime in and say a couple of things.
Whoever was saying these people need to learn to sum things up, the CC is an intricate web of different factors and can and does not need to be summed up. If you do not like or are incapable of reading posts longer than three lines, that's not my problem.
Back on topic, I think that the removal of the team username (OCNChimpin, etc) is a terrible idea for a couple of reasons. First of all, this is saying that everyone who folds for a team automatically consents to participating in the CC. This may not be the case, maybe that user does not want to support the team (sounds ridiculous but may be true). Second, you're saying that the recruiting part of the CC, which has always been the best show of team loyalty, is now null and void. This takes out a lot of the fun and challenge of the CC.
Furthermore, I think we can all agree whole point of the CC is sure to increase research but mainly, in my opinion, to enjoy it.
If we had a couple of people run some numbers on a relative weighted handicap based on previous CC performance and FAH points in March (obviously it'd need to be weighted so that HPCS isn't a substantial factor) and EVGA's points in March and CC 2011, and then apply that handicap to everyone this year (EVGA would be folding "raw" points), that may work well.
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post #66 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by csm725 View Post

Let me just chime in and say a couple of things.
Whoever was saying these people need to learn to sum things up, the CC is an intricate web of different factors and can and does not need to be summed up. If you do not like or are incapable of reading posts longer than three lines, that's not my problem.
Back on topic, I think that the removal of the team username (OCNChimpin, etc) is a terrible idea for a couple of reasons. First of all, this is saying that everyone who folds for a team automatically consents to participating in the CC. This may not be the case, maybe that user does not want to support the team (sounds ridiculous but may be true). Second, you're saying that the recruiting part of the CC, which has always been the best show of team loyalty, is now null and void. This takes out a lot of the fun and challenge of the CC.
Furthermore, I think we can all agree whole point of the CC is sure to increase research but mainly, in my opinion, to enjoy it.
If we had a couple of people run some numbers on a relative weighted handicap based on previous CC performance and FAH points in March (obviously it'd need to be weighted so that HPCS isn't a substantial factor) and EVGA's points in March and CC 2011, and then apply that handicap to everyone this year (EVGA would be folding "raw" points), that may work well.

Yes, three lines is definitely a fail in this thread!! rolleyes.gif

Do you have teammates who would NOT want to fold in a team race, like the CC, even if they lost no points or time having to set it up?? I have never heard of this. All the time, I hear it the other way -- I have to drive 50 miles to get to change a borg - then I have to drive back and reset it after the CC is over. Total mileage: 200, and I pay $4.45 a gallon for fuel, thanks to Nobama. mad.gif

But I digress.

Your last paragraph is what the handicapper for the race, would do, to a tee. It will take some experimentation (as handicapping always does), but it can be very flexible - like a gumby of race formats. thumb.gif
post #67 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by zodac View Post

Perhaps not, but people request a lot of things so they don't have to put in any effort too. The username issue - while a deterrent to people - was not the cause of the problems last year. Why are we going out of way to change every little thing people have an issue with, when there was just one small flaw with last year's set up?

Taking out the number one feature of the CC - that users need to change their username to compete - dilutes the value of the competition. And what are the benefits? So people who don't care about their team enough to switch over to the CC name - people who care more about their own points than that of their team - can take part too?

If people aren't willing to change their name for 10 days in a year, I see no reason why we should cater to them.

actually to one team CC names is always detrimental...EVGA and their EVGA buck folders

by basing the handicap on the team output rather than CC only we were punished by folders outside of EVGA (in big numbers) that just come to get bucks
and then we couldn't convert the numbers because

1 big team is harder
2.those from other teams just for bucks would not switch - some may actually be competing against us in the CC ( I know of teams that almost entirely that fold for EVGA bucks...but don't get involved in our team or races)
3 there will always be a section that won't fold in races - I think -ocn hit theirs at 10% won't

how would your team feel or a small team feel if evga went to them for 1 month - over-inflated their numbers we went back to our team and then to the CC
the smaller team data would have a 25MPPD boost in the handicap averaged in(over normal - doubling /tripling output) - now there is no chance to win with those numbers

imagine Overclockers going from 8 MPPD to 32M PPD (just prior to the CC - evga or [H] boost...then they leave) now your team handicap would be based off of that 32M PPD month
and some other months - still this averages your team up on the handicap ..you would most likely be out of any race going back to your normal output now

this is why any handicap has to be based off the chimp PPD only (to take data outside could be biased by events)

don't think that won't happen - EVGA is considering guest folding treks - like guest crunching treks (we do that to as fun treks - getting to know other teams, build bridges)

Id like to see that - see Adak eyes bulge as EVGA members come over and see their team number hit new height from a friendly visit
(we expect the same in return - you guest fold for the same amount of time)

if you don't thnk EVGA bucks is an issue track EVGA monthly out put as it declines as people earn their bucks - the bottom dip shows what the teams number is without the buck folders


as for the CC name - I hear ya zodac - but it's hard to fight against it when my own team wants it gone - there are a few of us that believe it should stay(even on my own team) - however if the teams want it gone I can't sit in their way...this be a team vote item

my team for reasons above wants it gone let alone what I have below

Adak brought up great reason - we have 1000's of active folders switchin machines not trivial - and your are gonna have errors in the switch over as well -wrong name - wrong passkey, wrong team number. restart issues. remote login problems

I personal seen these issues tracking down why team numbers weren't up...see people have the wrong name (spelling), wrong team (1 digit wrong or default), passkeys with blanks on end or digits missing

this gets rid of change over issues

as for the CC name - everything else is changed - the original format and point system is gone - we have handicaps of some kind - so the original contest has long been gone
all that left is the name change over - if the teams want it -it's fine by me - I'll argue for the CC name (as troy8d does) but if Im a minority I can't stop progress

remember we want to add teams next year - more than 1..Id like to see us double the number of teams
getting them to accept switching to a team name - within a team gonna be tough and then explaining it all and they will have the same issues and troubles



as for the boost Idea - my team is looking over it - positive remarks so far
this is what I sort of had in mind for EVGA against OCN anyways


as for the Chimp name - you can prime your own passkey like I did. it's better than passing out keys
Edited by Xavier Zepherious - 4/13/12 at 10:31am
post #68 of 314
RIP Chimp Challenge... no changeover = no real competition.

The fact that team EVGA is a victim of EVGA bucks is more than a little bit comical. The people who fold for bucks don't want to participate in/don't care about the competition anyway. The people who are worried about the changeover are the ones who actually want to (and will) participate. They will change over to EVGApes if need be.

@Adak: you keep asking "Who wouldn't want to fold with their team?" Well, every year there's a list of people who don't change over. Whether it's because they're lazy, or it's because they don't want to lose points, they made their decision. They don't want in. Now they're just going to wake up and be involved in a competition they didn't sign up for? That doesn't really build team spirit. They won't participate in inter-team conversation... they're just points.
post #69 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach1 View Post

RIP Chimp Challenge... no changeover = no real competition.

The fact that team EVGA is a victim of EVGA bucks is more than a little bit comical. The people who fold for bucks don't want to participate in/don't care about the competition anyway. The people who are worried about the changeover are the ones who actually want to (and will) participate. They will change over to EVGApes if need be.

@Adak: you keep asking "Who wouldn't want to fold with their team?" Well, every year there's a list of people who don't change over. Whether it's because they're lazy, or it's because they don't want to lose points, they made their decision. They don't want in. Now they're just going to wake up and be involved in a competition they didn't sign up for? That doesn't really build team spirit. They won't participate in inter-team conversation... they're just points.

I must agree.

Sadly I think the amount of bonuses some people receive from folding is one of the reasons why people don't switch.

Some people simply aren't in it to contribute to the team itself. Now I'm sure that it's not only because people fold for points, but maybe because they just want to a certain group in it's folding initiative, but not partake in the competitive nature of folding. They would much rather keep it as for the cause instead.
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post #70 of 314
Bottom line is, we aren't racing sub-teams here. The reason for the change of name and passkey for the CC, has long since walked off into the sunset, and disappeared. There is no reason to keep it, as far as the team race goes. If you want to use something like this for a loyalty test or whatever, that's your choice, but it's simply not an operational concern for a team race, anymore.

Those teammates may not do as you'd like, but they ARE on your team. Like it or not. rolleyes.gif

The handicapper will have to take a LOT of factors into consideration, to make this work out. It is a very flexible format, but it will need some careful handicapping to get it just right.
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