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Looking for a 24" monitor with the best black levels I can get @ <$200 USD

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Topic pretty much says it all. I'll be retiring the 22" Acer X223Wbd I got a few years ago, and am hoping to get something that can do full 1080p and get somewhat better black levels in my dimly lit computer room. (Better viewing angles would be a plus as well since there's a fair bit of variation from top to bottom on my current monitor, but I realize at this price point IPS isn't feasible, so I'm probably pretty limited in that area.) I've been eying the ASUS VS248H-P, but I thought I'd run it by you fellows first to see if you think it would be a worthwhile improvement or if there are others I should be considering instead.
Edited by nonoitall - 4/8/12 at 3:15am
post #2 of 10
this monitor is lovely: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236154 rolleyes.gif
 
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post #3 of 10
No TN or IPS panel will be able to come anywhere near a modern VA panel in terms of black levels.

If you really care about black level, you go with an VA panel. Like the samsung s22a650d / s24a650d. These models are roughly equal to a slower IPS panel in terms of ghosting, since VA panels have always been the slowest of the three, and these models are among the fastest VA panels.

They have relatively good viewing angles too.
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post #4 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by De-Zant View Post

No TN or IPS panel will be able to come anywhere near a modern VA panel in terms of black levels.
If you really care about black level, you go with an VA panel. Like the samsung s22a650d / s24a650d. These models are roughly equal to a slower IPS panel in terms of ghosting, since VA panels have always been the slowest of the three, and these models are among the fastest VA panels.
They have relatively good viewing angles too.
Thanks for the informative post! I'm pretty determined to at least match the height of my current display, thus necessitating the 24" size (assuming a 16:9 ratio, which is a given for a 1080p monitor). The S24A650D is really over my budget but I see a few places offering it for ~$270 USD, which just barely borders within the realm of what I might be able to part with. (There aren't any less expensive 24" VA monitors out there, are there? I can't seem to find a very comprehensive listing of monitors by display tech.) Assuming movies and games won't suffer too badly from its slightly lower response times, I could possibly spring for the S24A650D at that price if it were coming from a dealer with a good policy regarding dead pixels. (Know of any?)

Still, if there are any TN panels that stand out as being exceptional for TN monitors (particularly compared to my current one) I'm eager to hear any insights on those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC-Guru View Post

this monitor is lovely: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236154 rolleyes.gif
How does it compare with the VS248H-P? Aside from panel/backlight tech and resolution, I'm pretty incompetent when it comes to understanding the differences between monitors. tongue.gif
post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonoitall View Post

The S24A650D is really over my budget but I see a few places offering it for ~$270 USD, which just barely borders within the realm of what I might be able to part with. (There aren't any less expensive 24" VA monitors out there, are there? I can't seem to find a very comprehensive listing of monitors by display tech.)

You may want to see if you can find a used monitor with a VA panel. They are all pretty much in the $300+ price tier new though. There was a BenQ that recently got clearanced out for around $190 but, it had bad response times and ghosting. If you can hold off until the new 120 Hz VA panels come out later this year, you might be able to pick on of the 60 Hz VA panels up cheaper than their current pricing but there is the risk that the 120 Hz will be sold alongside the 60 Hz panels for substantially more money just like TN panels currently are. The only panel list I have ever seen by panel type is a short and incomplete IPS list. You could venture into the world of using a 32" TV as your monitor but, the pixel density will not be as large, you will introduce some input lag, you will need to find one that can run 4:4:4 chroma, and it could easily break your price cap you have set. It does expand the ease of finding a VA panel but that is somewhat negated by trying to find one that does 4:4:4 as until recently this wasn't an advertised feature. I'm bringing up the TV because I don't know what your needs are other than black levels.

You are wrong about not being able to get an IPS panel in your price point though. AOC and Viewsonic both have 23" e-IPS monitors for under $200 and you can get the Dell 23" Ultrasharp which is also e-IPS for around $250 after tax + shipping when it's on sale. The Dell is by far the better of the three when it comes to input lag, response time and ghosting, plus they will cross ship replacements free of charge. I know you mentioned wanting a 24" monitor but there is a minimal difference in 23" an 24" and it opens up the door for you to own an e-IPS. As De-Zant pointed out though, the black levels on IPS will not get anywhere near what a VA panel will. The black level food chain goes A-MVA>S-PVA>IPS>TN and the difference between VA and IPS is substantial. I couldn't find any hard data on your current monitor but a review at Newegg (take it with a grain of salt) said that calibrated their X223Wbd had a black level of .19cd/m^2. If that's true, an IPS panel will most likely not improve your black levels much as they typically range from .15cd/m^2 to .25cd/m^2 while VA panels commonly dip down to .02cd/m^2 to .04cd/m^2.
    
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post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer J View Post

If you can hold off until the new 120 Hz VA panels come out later this year, you might be able to pick on of the 60 Hz VA panels up cheaper than their current pricing but there is the risk that the 120 Hz will be sold alongside the 60 Hz panels for substantially more money just like TN panels currently are.
Well if there's a chance they'll be coming down relatively soon, I suppose I'm better off waiting a few months. Thanks for the advice. thumb.gif
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, have been shopping around a bit again and was wondering what you fellows thought of the Asus ML249H? According to the description it's an MVA panel, and at this point it can be had for around $200. I'm still hoping for something with relatively good black levels, and I don't do much in the way of gaming (Star Wars KotOR is probably the 'fastest moving' game that I play).
post #8 of 10
The only good review of the ML249H is in German, from PRAD.de

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2011/test-asus-ml249h.html

It sucks: low contrast (lower than most recent IPS and TN panels), poor viewing angles and gamma shift compared to other VA panels and slow response times.

BenQ just released the GW2450HM and GW2750HM, they have proper over drive and better motion performance compared to the Samsung S24A650D, but worse image quality.

If the black levels RacerJ dug up are accurate pretty much any modern IPS or TN panel will have better black levels than the Acer, except for the Dell U2410, Asus PA246Q and 30" IPS, but those are way over your budget any way....
Edited by MenacingTuba - 6/22/12 at 1:51am
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post #9 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer J View Post

I couldn't find any hard data on your current monitor but a review at Newegg (take it with a grain of salt) said that calibrated their [Acer] X223Wbd had a black level of .19cd/m^2. If that's true, an IPS panel will most likely not improve your black levels much as they typically range from .15cd/m^2 to .25cd/m^2 while VA panels commonly dip down to .02cd/m^2 to .04cd/m^2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

If the black levels RacerJ dug up are accurate pretty much any modern IPS or TN panel will have better black levels than the Acer...
Now I'm confused. Are current TN/IPS panels still achieving about the same black levels as the Acer (in which case I would want something better) or have they markedly improved (in which case a newer TN/IPS panel might be sufficient)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

The only good review of the ML249H is in German, from PRAD.de
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2011/test-asus-ml249h.html
It sucks: low contrast (lower than most recent IPS and TN panels), poor viewing angles and gamma shift compared to other VA panels and slow response times.
BenQ just released the GW2450HM and GW2750HM, they have proper over drive and better motion performance compared to the Samsung S24A650D, but worse image quality.
To be fair, I've seen quite a few positive reviews for the ML249H. (I wouldn't have asked about it otherwise.) But, being around $235, the GW2450HM wouldn't fudge on the budget too much. On paper, its response time is the same as the ML249H's, but take it the consensus is that it would be a better choice?
post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonoitall View Post

Now I'm confused. Are current TN/IPS panels still achieving about the same black levels as the Acer (in which case I would want something better) or have they markedly improved (in which case a newer TN/IPS panel might be sufficient)?

Current TN/IPS are much better, except for the models I mentioned (U2410/PA246Q/30" IPS). Current TN viewing angles won't be much better than your Acer and all matte IPS panels except for the AOC i235 (it doesn't have good blacks so don't bother researching it) use a very grainy matte coating, so I would avoid those.

The PRAD.de review of the ML249H is the only proper review I am aware of. I was interested in this model last year but couldn't come up with any proper reviews aside from PRAD.de's (Reviews which don't measure the colours or response time don't count). They might have received a bad panel (in terms of contrast/blacks) so you could try one out from a place with a no hassle return policy (Amazon or Buy.com). I can guarantee you that the response time will still be slow though.

Another option is the Samsung S24A650D, prad.de gave it a good review. It is not as fast as the GW2450HM but I have heard from some one on [H]ard Forum that the Samsung has much better image quality.

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2012/test-samsung-s24a650d-led.html

Here is the official BenQ GW2x50HM thread:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1698102
Edited by MenacingTuba - 6/22/12 at 4:16pm
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