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post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairtrade View Post

In regards to razer, I too have been a little disappointed by them. In some ways that is. I didn't begin purchasing stuff from them until recently, the first being the Blackwidow keyboard. I was absolutely blown away. Awesome keyboard, especially since at the time there were not many "gaming" mechanical keyboards. After that I just assumed that everything razer did was awesome. So that led me to get the lachesis. And...its an alright mouse. Build quality seems good and I like the feel and shape of it. But....the tracking...the tracking was and is bad. I find myself having to thorough clean the lense every other day or so. Very obnoxious. Sometimes it will get screwy even if I do clean it. It's sad though because when I read about the old razer mice, I get the feeling that they lasted for a long time and performed great.
I just might post a review. To be honest, before getting the lachesis, I didn't really think that finding a good gaming mouse would be complicated. I figured that if it's a got a good dpi, a good build, and comfortable shape that it would be great. But I'm realizing now is that finding a really good sensor is complicated and that there are so many little potential problems (acceleration, prediction, angle snapping, etc.) And the thing is, that websites specializing in hardware reviews rarely go in depth in testing this. A big reason why I'm starting to love these forums. So because of that, I feel like I'm obligated to do some indepth testing, cause..well..someone ought to. smile.gif
(p.s., if I do write a review, I'll spell check....cause.....i'm making lots'o'spelling mistakes with my posts here)

Don't worry about spelling. This isn't grammear class. smile.gif
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShtKck View Post

I've had terrible experience with Razer mice and peripherals. Poor build quality, poor customer service. Never again. They're all flash.
Logitech's G500 should be right up your ally. Or the G400, if they're still making it.

I used to have a Diamondback. There wasn't much wrong with it. It had a good size, good shape, light weight. Good tracking. My biggest complaint (which remains the same to this day) is the rubbery material they use for the top and buttons. It scratches easily and collects grime.
    
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post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEoBZ View Post

When I say Razer has gone down the drain I mean by each and every one of their mice, heck all of their products have. I would buy a Steelseries mouse over any razer mouse. why? They make them better.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but I wanted to share mine as I have a rather decent understanding of materials and cost.
Quote:
Keep in mind we are only talking about mice. Not the entire brand itself. This isn't something I've just made up out of the air. This is something I have tested over time, used daily, and had many personal experiences with myself.
I was talking about mice, low end to high end.
Quote:
I didn't just pick a Deathadder and a XAI. I have tested numerous mice from numerous companies. Each and every time the Logitech or the Steelseries has held up whether it was their highest end mouse or their lowest end. It doesn't matter. They build them to last. They don't build them to be flashy.
I'm perfectly fine that you feel that the Xai is a quality mouse. Why? because it is. The guy that designed the tooling didn't cut corners or make cheap investments to maximize profit.

I do have to disagree when you state "They make them better" or "They build them to last. They don't build them to be flashy". Why? Because it's simply untrue.

I could go into pinpoint detail on this, but I don't really want to comment on design aspects even If I dislike a specific firms current business model.
Quote:
Just like anything thing else that moves. The more parts, the greater the chance of failure.

I don't understand this. A mouse like the Xai has more individual parts than a Deathadder (Since you mentioned them)

Anyways, I've said way too much.
Edited by Skylit - 4/12/12 at 4:59am
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

You're entitled to your own opinion, but I wanted to share mine as I have a rather decent understanding of materials and cost.
Quote:
Keep in mind we are only talking about mice. Not the entire brand itself. This isn't something I've just made up out of the air. This is something I have tested over time, used daily, and had many personal experiences with myself.
I was talking about mice, low end to high end.
Quote:
I didn't just pick a Deathadder and a XAI. I have tested numerous mice from numerous companies. Each and every time the Logitech or the Steelseries has held up whether it was their highest end mouse or their lowest end. It doesn't matter. They build them to last. They don't build them to be flashy.
I'm perfectly fine that you feel that the Xai is a quality mouse. Why? because it is. The guy that designed the tooling didn't cut corners or make cheap investments to maximize profit.
I do have to disagree when you state "They make them better" or "They build them to last. They don't build them to be flashy". Why? Because it's simply untrue.
I could go into pinpoint detail on this, but I don't really want to comment on design aspects even If I dislike a specific firms current business model.
Quote:
Just like anything thing else that moves. The more parts, the greater the chance of failure.
I don't understand this. A mouse like the Xai has more individual parts than a Deathadder (Since you mentioned them)
Anyways, I've said way too much.

I'm assuming your a Razer fan, and thats okay. Deathadder's still kick some ass. However, I'm sure you know I was just pulling names out of the air when I mentioned Deathadder vs XAI. Also I was using the XAI as a reference for a mouse this guy could buy, and be happy with for years.

Nothing I said is untrue. Try them out for a year, see which holds up better and then come back and let me know how it went. smile.gif

Either recommend this guy something or get out. Saying my statements are untrue without any reason is ignorant. I can state my opinion because I actually have a reason too. Reading articles and debating with me isn't going to help. Haha



If you want I can go dig up all of my old Razer products. None of them work except for some headsets. I can also dig up all of my Logitech and Steelseries mice. They all work. ( Thats not mentioning any of the other brands I own.)

I have some low end mice, some mid end, and some high end. So you can't really say I just bought the good stuff from Steelseries and the bad stuff from Razer.
Many have already agreed that Razer has gone down the drain. I love their designs but I just wish they would put some better made parts in there. I do have to admit I bought one their Xbox controllers and they are pretty awesome! I like their mouse pads too. smile.gif


Now, lets find this guy a simple gaming mouse!
Edited by THEoBZ - 4/12/12 at 8:29am
post #35 of 45
Back on topic, check this mouse out. I know you said you like to use your palm and you have smaller hands. This might be the one! http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kinzu-v2

You can find them right at $50.00 too!

I'll dig up some other brands too.

Look into the G500, G400. The G9's are nice but I never really got into the design. I have bigger hands and they just were not comfortable for me.

Also Roccat makes a nice one, the Kone. Very comfortable mouse.
Edited by THEoBZ - 4/12/12 at 8:35am
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEoBZ View Post

I'm assuming your a Razer fan, and thats okay.
Oh no you found me out.
Quote:
Nothing I said is untrue. Try them out for a year, see which holds up better and then come back and let me know how it went. smile.gif

Yes, It was quite foolish and immature of me to comment on matters the general public has little to no understanding of. My apologies.
Quote:
Either recommend this guy something or get out. Saying my statements are untrue without any reason is ignorant. I can state my opinion because I actually have a reason too. Reading articles and debating with me isn't going to help. Haha

I don't recommend mice these days because I have a rather high understanding of what goes into a mouse. I show bias towards the cost and quality of specific hardware and firmware implementation (as ironic as that might sound to you). I'm not trying to be ignorant, but rather respect certain industry individuals that help me understands things. The information I do hold has no relation to a specific internet article seeing as you assume that.

I'm sorry for sharing bits of the reality of the matter.
Edited by Skylit - 4/12/12 at 6:29pm
post #37 of 45
Skylit is one of the people here getting Beta mice for testing.
Roccat mouse pads are good, especially the Sense pad, but the mice feel very cheap. Even Kone+ does. That's weak considering it costs as much as a Xai or G9x. Kone/+ and Kova/+ were exposed at a MediaMarkt near my place, that's why I know they feel cheap. There are some people I know they didn't keep the Kone for more than a year because it has broken. Kone+ has a great sensor, not sure for the MCU, but I guess build quality isn't much better than Kone.
Btw, I have a Kinzu v1. Never felt a weirder tracking/accel., so to speak.
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEoBZ View Post

I'm assuming your a Razer fan, and thats okay. Deathadder's still kick some ass. However, I'm sure you know I was just pulling names out of the air when I mentioned Deathadder vs XAI. Also I was using the XAI as a reference for a mouse this guy could buy, and be happy with for years.

As far as I know, and I can assure you I've spoken with Skylit quite a bit, he's not a fan of any given computer mice company. His knowledge goes deeper than the sticker the product is branded with.

If I was you I would treat information he gives away as something to check upon, and then make your own mind about it.

Discarding his posts just because you think he is a kind of person he isn't just makes you look bad and uninformed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEoBZ View Post

Nothing I said is untrue. Try them out for a year, see which holds up better and then come back and let me know how it went. smile.gif

Yes it is.
I had 2 G5's, a mouse you praise to heaven and back. My experience :
- One of them skipped like crazy even at relatively slow movements. Logitech released a firmware update. Same thing. It was useless to me.
- Bought a G5 2007 (mostly because now it had TWO side buttons). Fell once from a distance under 40cm (for you imperial metrics guys, that's 16 inches), mouse wheel and M1 broken.

I also had 2 DA's, a mouse you say is fragile and pretty bad overall. My experience :
- First one worked for 4 or 5 years almost flawlessly, carrying it on a bag with all the other gaming things (mousepad, headset, USB soundcard, etc.), and apart from several scratches - I was using a steel mousepad and a very rough plastic mousepad at the time -, it stood performing for all this time.
- Second one was a 3.5G that I bought after a wild trip I made over other mice and companies by trying to find a mouse that performed better than my first DA - tried lasers, opticals, all sizes and sensors-, and went back to a DA thinking that maybe I was just looking for something different. Over the course of the months testing other mice, my preferences - specially for shape - changed, and so I went looking for a smaller mouse than the DA. It still works and is on perfect condition.

I can't stress enough that personal experiences with products is a matter of opinion, but materials and product implementation is objective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEoBZ View Post

Either recommend this guy something or get out. Saying my statements are untrue without any reason is ignorant. I can state my opinion because I actually have a reason too. Reading articles and debating with me isn't going to help. Haha

He has already bought a mouse

The thread was already derailed by others, not him.

Considering the amount of "evidence" you provide, your statements are no more than opinion, and to that regard, not better than anyone else's opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEoBZ View Post

If you want I can go dig up all of my old Razer products. None of them work except for some headsets. I can also dig up all of my Logitech and Steelseries mice. They all work. ( Thats not mentioning any of the other brands I own.)
I have some low end mice, some mid end, and some high end. So you can't really say I just bought the good stuff from Steelseries and the bad stuff from Razer.
Many have already agreed that Razer has gone down the drain. I love their designs but I just wish they would put some better made parts in there. I do have to admit I bought one their Xbox controllers and they are pretty awesome! I like their mouse pads too. smile.gif
Now, lets find this guy a simple gaming mouse!

I don't see where Razer quality has gone down the drain, in fact it's quite the opposite, internally their products are really well done and finished, even if from the outside they might feel flimsy. There might be some issues because of some design decisions that are dubious, but that happens on every brand. There might be Razer fans and haters, but that's their issue.

On a per-product basis, all of them fit into a different market. The key here is to find the product that fits your niche, or else you won't be happy with what you bought. Each brand tries to fit one or several groups of gamers, with more or less success, so it makes no sense to judge products related to the brand they come from, but to do so independently. Some products may be awesome, where other will be junk. Nothing wrong with that, bad decisions can be made and they will take their monetary toll.

I think that part of the anti-Razer feeling around most forums comes from people who were recommended a mouse too blindly without taking into account the requirements of the buyer, being told it was awesome and amazing, and then finding it didn't suit them at all. Or just buying out of hearsay. I mean, look at the topic starter, he did get a Lachesis, while it's one of the mice I would very rarely recommend (only on special circumstances) and the consensus was that it was a failed product.

What's the morale of my post you might think, as I'm drifting over several subjects?
The key point is making educated decisions based on objective information.

PS : I just don't care what brand a mouse is, if it works for me, it works wink.gif
post #39 of 45
I really like my zowie am. It's pretty simple. smile.gif

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

As far as I know, and I can assure you I've spoken with Skylit quite a bit, he's not a fan of any given computer mice company. His knowledge goes deeper than the sticker the product is branded with.
If I was you I would treat information he gives away as something to check upon, and then make your own mind about it.
Discarding his posts just because you think he is a kind of person he isn't just makes you look bad and uninformed.
Yes it is.
I had 2 G5's, a mouse you praise to heaven and back. My experience :
- One of them skipped like crazy even at relatively slow movements. Logitech released a firmware update. Same thing. It was useless to me.
- Bought a G5 2007 (mostly because now it had TWO side buttons). Fell once from a distance under 40cm (for you imperial metrics guys, that's 16 inches), mouse wheel and M1 broken.
I also had 2 DA's, a mouse you say is fragile and pretty bad overall. My experience :
- First one worked for 4 or 5 years almost flawlessly, carrying it on a bag with all the other gaming things (mousepad, headset, USB soundcard, etc.), and apart from several scratches - I was using a steel mousepad and a very rough plastic mousepad at the time -, it stood performing for all this time.
- Second one was a 3.5G that I bought after a wild trip I made over other mice and companies by trying to find a mouse that performed better than my first DA - tried lasers, opticals, all sizes and sensors-, and went back to a DA thinking that maybe I was just looking for something different. Over the course of the months testing other mice, my preferences - specially for shape - changed, and so I went looking for a smaller mouse than the DA. It still works and is on perfect condition.
I can't stress enough that personal experiences with products is a matter of opinion, but materials and product implementation is objective.
He has already bought a mouse
The thread was already derailed by others, not him.
Considering the amount of "evidence" you provide, your statements are no more than opinion, and to that regard, not better than anyone else's opinion.
I don't see where Razer quality has gone down the drain, in fact it's quite the opposite, internally their products are really well done and finished, even if from the outside they might feel flimsy. There might be some issues because of some design decisions that are dubious, but that happens on every brand. There might be Razer fans and haters, but that's their issue.
On a per-product basis, all of them fit into a different market. The key here is to find the product that fits your niche, or else you won't be happy with what you bought. Each brand tries to fit one or several groups of gamers, with more or less success, so it makes no sense to judge products related to the brand they come from, but to do so independently. Some products may be awesome, where other will be junk. Nothing wrong with that, bad decisions can be made and they will take their monetary toll.
I think that part of the anti-Razer feeling around most forums comes from people who were recommended a mouse too blindly without taking into account the requirements of the buyer, being told it was awesome and amazing, and then finding it didn't suit them at all. Or just buying out of hearsay. I mean, look at the topic starter, he did get a Lachesis, while it's one of the mice I would very rarely recommend (only on special circumstances) and the consensus was that it was a failed product.
What's the morale of my post you might think, as I'm drifting over several subjects?
The key point is making educated decisions based on objective information.
PS : I just don't care what brand a mouse is, if it works for me, it works wink.gif

Said it perfectly! Didn't mean to sound like I was bashing on him. I've read and posted on several subjects where he always makes great comments in and I'm sure he knows his stuff. However, for $50.00 I wouldn't shoot for Razer :/

I do like their Blade Laptop coming out though! I'm not anti-Razer, I just feel like they are dropping the quality they used to have. I could be wrong though.


To Skylit - Hope I didn't offend you or upset you. I just feel like I have owned many mice from many companies so please don't take my input for granted. I may not have the title on here that you do but I probably know close or as much as you do on whats put into these little things. I've tested before as well and anything I have said came from personal experiences from rough, tough, and hard gaming. Wish I made money doing it though. Sponsorships won't get you too far haha.

My apologies for upsetting anyone, or sounding like a J4ck 4$$. That was not my intent.
Edited by THEoBZ - 4/12/12 at 7:24pm
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