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z77 mATX with PCIE 3.0 PLX PXE chip? - Page 4

post #31 of 45
Thread Starter 
thx vega for chiming in. and yes after some review, I did go with the x79 mATX board specifically for the PCIE lanes.
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post #32 of 45
Quote:
I hadn't realized so many people were hanging onto that old information that I put out way back in 'Jan 11. Those tests I did were in reference to my current setup at the time. That happened to be 4-Way crossfire 6970's on a 8x/8x/8x/8x PCI-E 2.0 P67 with a NF200 bridge and using AMD launch drivers. There just wasn't enough bandwidth to properly run 12-mega-pixels and the incredibly poor AMD drivers didn't help anything. I even spoke to AMD about the crossfire bridge limitations on their forums. I found out that the crossfire bridges and SLI bridges don't really handle frame swapping. The PCI-E bus does that and the bridges are mainly used for synchronization data. That high of a stress, that limited of bandwidth and those poor of drivers at that time led to epic failure. Hence why I moved on to the 3GB 580's so fast (X58) and it worked out great.
At that point in time that was the information I had and what worked, and what didn't. What "Levesque" pointed out in some thread nine-months late on a completely different chip-set and drivers I couldn't care less about. Especially for a user, if you've read his post history, is so anti-Nvidia and pro AMD it borders on fanaticism. Yet you would rather take his word and screen shot of him playing a game (such compelling evidence) versus someone who is brand neutral and has tested every high end GPU from both manufacturers for the last five years. wink.gif

You should also realize that I don't doubt your knowledge about anything for that matter tongue.gif I have read through all your build logs Vega. In fact, I was butthurt for a long time at AMD that this would even be a problem. I just stated that you indeed could have had a mistake. And The bolded part of your quote, see that would have been interesting information to know. In fact, in that very thread, a user does state to contact amd about the matter. I scoffed at the idea, didn't think they would address those issues for consumers.

Hey man, in that EVGA thread, you did state that some games simply would not run. Unless that user purposely photoshopped game images over his eyefinity setup, I was hard pressed to see otherwise. See, that is why I stated the drivers could be at fault, you launched that data on your x58 vs p67 comparison just weeks after the first post release drivers for 69xx series. It wouldn't be the first time that drivers have thrown off data. And the stress placed by you wouldn't help either.


I want to clarify, do you still have that evga thread available. It had fancy graphs. Real fancy I will give you that. But the reason I bring it up is because it showed that you did have difficulty trying to run tri/quad crossfire. Just want to clarify.


And as to why I trusted the guy: It was 2am and I said these very words:
Quote:
Ahh well I see. I mean Id like to see an actually thread bout this. Xtremesystems thinks vega was fine. And he provided some decent benchmarks. That'd great that you've found this. Don't blame me for this and say misinformation, I dont see you anywhere on the radar. I'm tried of this minformation BS. AMD has no white paper on this that I know of. Where am I supposed to find this information? I never said my information is correct! I read regularly and when people seem to be in confirmation I'd tend to agree. Who the heck buys 3 gpus anyways. Who the heck cares or th most part.

Here instead of sounding like a vroken record (stop spreading misinformation). Go make your voice heard, correct my post politely, and stop blaming others. I won't apologize for this and I'll continue to say what I will till I see information to otherwise.

Since he did infact prove me wrong, I was like, well darn aren't I just plain ignorant.
Edited by Spykerv - 4/12/12 at 6:37pm
     
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post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spykerv View Post

Quote:
I hadn't realized so many people were hanging onto that old information that I put out way back in 'Jan 11. Those tests I did were in reference to my current setup at the time. That happened to be 4-Way crossfire 6970's on a 8x/8x/8x/8x PCI-E 2.0 P67 with a NF200 bridge and using AMD launch drivers. There just wasn't enough bandwidth to properly run 12-mega-pixels and the incredibly poor AMD drivers didn't help anything. I even spoke to AMD about the crossfire bridge limitations on their forums. I found out that the crossfire bridges and SLI bridges don't really handle frame swapping. The PCI-E bus does that and the bridges are mainly used for synchronization data. That high of a stress, that limited of bandwidth and those poor of drivers at that time led to epic failure. Hence why I moved on to the 3GB 580's so fast (X58) and it worked out great.
At that point in time that was the information I had and what worked, and what didn't. What "Levesque" pointed out in some thread nine-months late on a completely different chip-set and drivers I couldn't care less about. Especially for a user, if you've read his post history, is so anti-Nvidia and pro AMD it borders on fanaticism. Yet you would rather take his word and screen shot of him playing a game (such compelling evidence) versus someone who is brand neutral and has tested every high end GPU from both manufacturers for the last five years. wink.gif
You should also realize that I don't doubt your knowledge about anything for that matter tongue.gif I have read through all your build logs Vega. In fact, I was butthurt for a long time at AMD that this would even be a problem. I just stated that you indeed could have had a mistake. And The bolded part of your quote, see that would have been interesting information to know. In fact, in that very thread, a user does state to contact amd about the matter. I scoffed at the idea, didn't think they would address those issues for consumers.
Hey man, in that EVGA thread, you did state that some games simply would not run. Unless that user purposely photoshopped game images over his eyefinity setup, I was hard pressed to see otherwise. See, that is why I stated the drivers could be at fault, you launched that data on your x58 vs p67 comparison just weeks after the first post release drivers for 69xx series. It wouldn't be the first time that drivers have thrown off data. And the stress placed by you wouldn't help either.
I want to clarify, do you still have that evga thread available. It had fancy graphs. Real fancy I will give you that. But the reason I bring it up is because it showed that you did have difficulty trying to run tri/quad crossfire. Just want to clarify.
And as to why I trusted the guy: It was 2am and I said these very words:
Quote:
Ahh well I see. I mean Id like to see an actually thread bout this. Xtremesystems thinks vega was fine. And he provided some decent benchmarks. That'd great that you've found this. Don't blame me for this and say misinformation, I dont see you anywhere on the radar. I'm tried of this minformation BS. AMD has no white paper on this that I know of. Where am I supposed to find this information? I never said my information is correct! I read regularly and when people seem to be in confirmation I'd tend to agree. Who the heck buys 3 gpus anyways. Who the heck cares or th most part.
Here instead of sounding like a vroken record (stop spreading misinformation). Go make your voice heard, correct my post politely, and stop blaming others. I won't apologize for this and I'll continue to say what I will till I see information to otherwise.
Since he did infact prove me wrong, I was like, well darn aren't I just plain ignorant.

Yes, some games would not run at my native resolution. That was 4800x2560 (3x 30" portrait). If I lowered the resolution down with custom resolutions (which decreased the bandwidth requirement, and only that), the games would magically start to work! Hence my emphasis on bandwidth. My recent PCI-E bandwidth tests only reinforce my thoughts on that setup back then.

To my knowledge no one has ever run 3x 30" using P67 and quad 6970 anywhere near the time I did my tests. Levesque used a 6990 and two 6970's on X58 I believe 9 months later. Irrelevant. I am not sure which graphs that you speak of. Were they benchmarks graphs or SLI scaling? That was like four computers ago, seems like forever. biggrin.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhk1004 View Post

thx vega for chiming in. and yes after some review, I did go with the x79 mATX board specifically for the PCIE lanes.

Sweet. Which CPU?
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post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

You should also realize that I don't doubt your knowledge about anything for that matter tongue.gif I have read through all your build logs Vega. In fact, I was butthurt for a long time at AMD that this would even be a problem. I just stated that you indeed could have had a mistake. And The bolded part of your quote, see that would have been interesting information to know. In fact, in that very thread, a user does state to contact amd about the matter. I scoffed at the idea, didn't think they would address those issues for consumers.
Hey man, in that EVGA thread, you did state that some games simply would not run. Unless that user purposely photoshopped game images over his eyefinity setup, I was hard pressed to see otherwise. See, that is why I stated the drivers could be at fault, you launched that data on your x58 vs p67 comparison just weeks after the first post release drivers for 69xx series. It wouldn't be the first time that drivers have thrown off data. And the stress placed by you wouldn't help either.
I want to clarify, do you still have that evga thread available. It had fancy graphs. Real fancy I will give you that. But the reason I bring it up is because it showed that you did have difficulty trying to run tri/quad crossfire. Just want to clarify.
And as to why I trusted the guy: It was 2am and I said these very words:
Quote:
Ahh well I see. I mean Id like to see an actually thread bout this. Xtremesystems thinks vega was fine. And he provided some decent benchmarks. That'd great that you've found this. Don't blame me for this and say misinformation, I dont see you anywhere on the radar. I'm tried of this minformation BS. AMD has no white paper on this that I know of. Where am I supposed to find this information? I never said my information is correct! I read regularly and when people seem to be in confirmation I'd tend to agree. Who the heck buys 3 gpus anyways. Who the heck cares or th most part.
Here instead of sounding like a vroken record (stop spreading misinformation). Go make your voice heard, correct my post politely, and stop blaming others. I won't apologize for this and I'll continue to say what I will till I see information to otherwise.
Since he did infact prove me wrong, I was like, well darn aren't I just plain ignorant.
Quote:
Yes, some games would not run at my native resolution. That was 4800x2560 (3x 30" portrait). If I lowered the resolution down with custom resolutions (which decreased the bandwidth requirement, and only that), the games would magically start to work! Hence my emphasis on bandwidth. My recent PCI-E bandwidth tests only reinforce my thoughts on that setup back then.
To my knowledge no one has ever run 3x 30" using P67 and quad 6970 anywhere near the time I did my tests. Levesque used a 6990 and two 6970's on X58 I believe 9 months later. Irrelevant. I am not sure which graphs that you speak of. Were they benchmarks graphs or SLI scaling? That was like four computers ago, seems like forever. biggrin.gif
Sweet. Which CPU?

They were a combination of both. that EVGA thread was a culmination of all your analysis and data, more conclusive than the OCN thread at the time AFAIR. I tried googling them for quite a long time, could no longer find them D: That data impressed me to say the least.

Wait, where do you see Levesque having x58. At the time he had p67 I believe with an nf200 multiplexer onboard, though I can't remember his system all that well.

wait, I just had an epiphany. How on earth could he have run quad with a 6990 and 6970s. Which 6990 has more than one contact? doh.gif
That can't be right, even at 2 am, I could realize that. He must have had a quad 6970 setup.

Hmm, the next thing we need is Levesque showing up and adding more to this conversation.
     
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post #35 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spykerv View Post

Quote:
I hadn't realized so many people were hanging onto that old information that I put out way back in 'Jan 11. Those tests I did were in reference to my current setup at the time. That happened to be 4-Way crossfire 6970's on a 8x/8x/8x/8x PCI-E 2.0 P67 with a NF200 bridge and using AMD launch drivers. There just wasn't enough bandwidth to properly run 12-mega-pixels and the incredibly poor AMD drivers didn't help anything. I even spoke to AMD about the crossfire bridge limitations on their forums. I found out that the crossfire bridges and SLI bridges don't really handle frame swapping. The PCI-E bus does that and the bridges are mainly used for synchronization data. That high of a stress, that limited of bandwidth and those poor of drivers at that time led to epic failure. Hence why I moved on to the 3GB 580's so fast (X58) and it worked out great.
At that point in time that was the information I had and what worked, and what didn't. What "Levesque" pointed out in some thread nine-months late on a completely different chip-set and drivers I couldn't care less about. Especially for a user, if you've read his post history, is so anti-Nvidia and pro AMD it borders on fanaticism. Yet you would rather take his word and screen shot of him playing a game (such compelling evidence) versus someone who is brand neutral and has tested every high end GPU from both manufacturers for the last five years. wink.gif
You should also realize that I don't doubt your knowledge about anything for that matter tongue.gif I have read through all your build logs Vega. In fact, I was butthurt for a long time at AMD that this would even be a problem. I just stated that you indeed could have had a mistake. And The bolded part of your quote, see that would have been interesting information to know. In fact, in that very thread, a user does state to contact amd about the matter. I scoffed at the idea, didn't think they would address those issues for consumers.
Hey man, in that EVGA thread, you did state that some games simply would not run. Unless that user purposely photoshopped game images over his eyefinity setup, I was hard pressed to see otherwise. See, that is why I stated the drivers could be at fault, you launched that data on your x58 vs p67 comparison just weeks after the first post release drivers for 69xx series. It wouldn't be the first time that drivers have thrown off data. And the stress placed by you wouldn't help either.
I want to clarify, do you still have that evga thread available. It had fancy graphs. Real fancy I will give you that. But the reason I bring it up is because it showed that you did have difficulty trying to run tri/quad crossfire. Just want to clarify.
And as to why I trusted the guy: It was 2am and I said these very words:
Quote:
Ahh well I see. I mean Id like to see an actually thread bout this. Xtremesystems thinks vega was fine. And he provided some decent benchmarks. That'd great that you've found this. Don't blame me for this and say misinformation, I dont see you anywhere on the radar. I'm tried of this minformation BS. AMD has no white paper on this that I know of. Where am I supposed to find this information? I never said my information is correct! I read regularly and when people seem to be in confirmation I'd tend to agree. Who the heck buys 3 gpus anyways. Who the heck cares or th most part.
Here instead of sounding like a vroken record (stop spreading misinformation). Go make your voice heard, correct my post politely, and stop blaming others. I won't apologize for this and I'll continue to say what I will till I see information to otherwise.
Since he did infact prove me wrong, I was like, well darn aren't I just plain ignorant.

Yes, some games would not run at my native resolution. That was 4800x2560 (3x 30" portrait). If I lowered the resolution down with custom resolutions (which decreased the bandwidth requirement, and only that), the games would magically start to work! Hence my emphasis on bandwidth. My recent PCI-E bandwidth tests only reinforce my thoughts on that setup back then.

To my knowledge no one has ever run 3x 30" using P67 and quad 6970 anywhere near the time I did my tests. Levesque used a 6990 and two 6970's on X58 I believe 9 months later. Irrelevant. I am not sure which graphs that you speak of. Were they benchmarks graphs or SLI scaling? That was like four computers ago, seems like forever. biggrin.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhk1004 View Post

thx vega for chiming in. and yes after some review, I did go with the x79 mATX board specifically for the PCIE lanes.

Sweet. Which CPU?

3930k. Couldn't resist it for 500...
Edited by bhk1004 - 4/12/12 at 7:42pm
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post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spykerv View Post


Hey, what happened to your DC to DC (VRM) power conversion FAQ. I do not buy for even one second that the whole of OCN knows everything there is to know about power circuitry. I saw a budget build the other day running a 3+1 with an x6, which is needless to say bound for demise any day, so I know not everyone knows about this. What makes me sad is I was trying to get that FAQ stickied, and we had such good steam going the first few days!
I get busy hahaha, i have free time one day and then i get 10lbs of hardware the next haha, hardware takes precedent.
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post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

I get busy hahaha, i have free time one day and then i get 10lbs of hardware the next haha, hardware takes precedent.

Of course, that is understandable. I thank you for the immense contribution to this community that you offer. smile.gif
     
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post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spykerv View Post

Quote:
Yes, some games would not run at my native resolution. That was 4800x2560 (3x 30" portrait). If I lowered the resolution down with custom resolutions (which decreased the bandwidth requirement, and only that), the games would magically start to work! Hence my emphasis on bandwidth. My recent PCI-E bandwidth tests only reinforce my thoughts on that setup back then.
To my knowledge no one has ever run 3x 30" using P67 and quad 6970 anywhere near the time I did my tests. Levesque used a 6990 and two 6970's on X58 I believe 9 months later. Irrelevant. I am not sure which graphs that you speak of. Were they benchmarks graphs or SLI scaling? That was like four computers ago, seems like forever. biggrin.gif
Sweet. Which CPU?
They were a combination of both. that EVGA thread was a culmination of all your analysis and data, more conclusive than the OCN thread at the time AFAIR. I tried googling them for quite a long time, could no longer find them D: That data impressed me to say the least.
Wait, where do you see Levesque having x58. At the time he had p67 I believe with an nf200 multiplexer onboard, though I can't remember his system all that well.
wait, I just had an epiphany. How on earth could he have run quad with a 6990 and 6970s. Which 6990 has more than one contact? doh.gif
That can't be right, even at 2 am, I could realize that. He must have had a quad 6970 setup.
Hmm, the next thing we need is Levesque showing up and adding more to this conversation.

You can run Quad crossfire with 1x 6990 and 2x 6970's, but the PCI-E bandwidth will be lower than 4x 6970's.
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post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

They were a combination of both. that EVGA thread was a culmination of all your analysis and data, more conclusive than the OCN thread at the time AFAIR. I tried googling them for quite a long time, could no longer find them D: That data impressed me to say the least.
Wait, where do you see Levesque having x58. At the time he had p67 I believe with an nf200 multiplexer onboard, though I can't remember his system all that well.
wait, I just had an epiphany. How on earth could he have run quad with a 6990 and 6970s. Which 6990 has more than one contact? doh.gif
That can't be right, even at 2 am, I could realize that. He must have had a quad 6970 setup.
Hmm, the next thing we need is Levesque showing up and adding more to this conversation.
You can run Quad crossfire with 1x 6990 and 2x 6970's, but the PCI-E bandwidth will be lower than 4x 6970's. [/quote]

Vega, why is that so? I still can't get a grasp on bandwidth used by the PCI bus.

What is the difference between a 6990 and a 6970 quad fire?

Is it because it is only connected to 1 slot vs. 2 and using only one lane (I'm running out of ideas) with the pcb already having connections built in rather than on two separate cards?
     
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post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spykerv View Post

You can run Quad crossfire with 1x 6990 and 2x 6970's, but the PCI-E bandwidth will be lower than 4x 6970's.
Vega, why is that so? I still can't get a grasp on bandwidth used by the PCI bus.
What is the difference between a 6990 and a 6970 quad fire?
Is it because it is only connected to 1 slot vs. 2 and using only one lane (I'm running out of ideas) with the pcb already having connections built in rather than on two separate cards?
[/quote]

GPU's one and two located on the 6990 don't have to communicate with each other over the PCI-E bus. They are directly linked on the card. This also allows a 16x/8x/8x lane allocation. The 6990 only has to talk to two 6970's and use two crossfire bridges. In a quad 6970 setup, the main card that hosts all of the monitor connections connects to the other three 6970's and has to communicate via three crossfire bridges and has to send entire frames between all the cards via the PCI-E bus, increasing bandwidth requirements. It is also on a slower 8x/8x/8x/8x lane allocation.
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