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[CVG] Next Xbox 'to boast ridiculously powerful 16-core CPU' - Page 29

post #281 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post

Stop thinking of these cores like general purpose x86/x64 cores, think smaller and made only to interpret one-three things.

One to three things? There are over 3000 CPU threads in the 360 build of Metro 2033.
Quote:
There are some sync-points between sub-systems. For example, between PhysX and the game, or between the game and renderer. But they can be crossed over by other tasks, so no thread is idle. The last time I measured the statistics, we were running approximately 3,000 tasks per 30ms frame on Xbox 360 for CPU-intensive scenes with all HW threads at 100 per cent load.

Source
Quote:
Digital Foundry: How would you characterise the combination of Xenos and Xenon compared to the traditional x86/GPU combo on PC? Surely on the face of it, Xbox 360 is lacking a lot of power compared to today's entry-level "enthusiast" PC hardware?

Oles Shishkovstov: You can calculate it like this: each 360 CPU core is approximately a quarter of the same-frequency Nehalem (i7) core. Add in approximately 1.5 times better performance because of the second, shared thread for 360 and around 1.3 times for Nehalem, multiply by three cores and you get around 70 to 85 per cent of a single modern CPU core on generic (but multi-threaded) code.

Bear in mind though that the above calculation will not work in the case where the code is properly vectorised. In that case 360 can actually exceed PC on a per-thread per-clock basis. So, is it enough? Nope, there is no CPU in the world that is enough for games!
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post #282 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanecmusic View Post

There ya go. Console's ruining everything by making everything easier. The developers dumbed down their games so all the video games now are truly "mindless". Back then games used to take some skill. Games such as Contra: Shattered Soldier, Quake, Unreal Tournament. Now that consoles have the developers attention, all the games are completely watered down so all the 9 year olds can play it. This movement is known as consolization. Call of duty went consolized with 4. Battlefield went consolized with Bad Company1. Unreal Tournament went consolized with 3. Crysis went consolized with part 2. You can tell when a game becomes consolized.
Another thing. If all games created on the PC and then coded to consoles, then whats the issue with properly releasing it for PC at the same time? Knowing this, the creation of console ports and even the thought of consolization makes no sense.

It has nothing to do with how hard a game is. Easy as in; you buy a box, wire to tv, put in bluray and play. That kind of easy. No driver crap, no settings for resolution, AA, lighting blablabla. Just plug and play. Man there is no talking to you is there?

Consolisation ... it's getting more rediculous everyday. Not even going there. Good luck.

Because they aren't coded to run on 5 versions of Windows and 45 different gfx cards. They are coded specifically for the console platform(s). Because that is where they make the most money.
How can the fact "they are created on the PC" have anything to do with the fact the game can run good on a PC?
 
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post #283 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

It has nothing to do with how hard a game is. Easy as in; you buy a box, wire to tv, put in bluray and play. That kind of easy. No driver crap, no settings for resolution, AA, lighting blablabla. Just plug and play. Man there is no talking to you is there?
Consolisation ... it's getting more rediculous everyday. Not even going there. Good luck.
Because they aren't coded to run on 5 versions of Windows and 45 different gfx cards. They are coded specifically for the console platform(s). Because that is where they make the most money.
How can the fact "they are created on the PC" have anything to do with the fact the game can run good on a PC?

Direct X takes care of that for you. All the developers would have to do is spend a slight bit more time optimizing it. Patches get released to consoles too you know so that argument stands.
post #284 of 303
Games are getting dumbed down because video games have become more mainstream. Even sequels to console games are getting dumber and dumber. They call it "streamlining" and even PC exclusives are hitting hit by this.
post #285 of 303
@Jordan; No it doesn't. Don't you think it it was that simple developers wouldn't do it? They take the complicated and expensive route because they enjoy burning money and annoying gamers?

Sometimes reality already gives you the answers no matter how many arguments against it people come up with. The industry is about money. End off. All decisions come from that higher cause.
 
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post #286 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanecmusic View Post

How to make good video game.
1. Make game for PC.
2. Smartly downscale it to consoles.
3. Profit.
I don't understand what is so hard about this?
1. It produces better video games.
2. It allows the PC users to use their strong hardware to render lalalalalaa
3. It allows the console users to get their piece of the action.
Witcher 2 will prove this theory correct when it comes to console.

Read the link about porting in my sig.

Making a game first for PC then trying to downscale it is MUCH more difficult than just making the game targeting consoles and allowing it to run on PC. So if we're talking about profit, companies will make a lot more of it making a game that targets all 3 platforms (PC, Xbox, PS3) with the same quality of game, and then spending time updating the PC version (or not even updating it for PC). The process you're describing means that the company cannot get the game out to console players as soon, which hurts profits in a big way.

I won't argue about the quality though, I agree that if a game comes out targeting only PCs and then goes to consoles it will likely be higher quality on the PC. It's just that it won't be as profitable to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanecmusic View Post

Direct X takes care of that for you. All the developers would have to do is spend a slight bit more time optimizing it. Patches get released to consoles too you know so that argument stands.

No it doesn't. DirectX gives you a unified architecture for rendering, it doesn't make it any easier to make your game run on a PC with 512MB of RAM, or a single CPU core, or a 5400 rpm HDD. DirectX doesn't take care of switching LODs, or textures for you based on the spec, and it doesn't take care of skipping animation frames at a distance, or not drawing certain things based on type or distance. DirectX doesn't take care of frustum culling, or occlusion culling for you (at least not in the sense that it will help performance, only in the sense that you will not render things behind something else).

I develop PC games, as a job. Let me just assure that it is MUCH more difficult than making a game for consoles.
Edited by lordikon - 4/16/12 at 6:16am
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post #287 of 303
If you could choose from all AMD processors out now for PCs which one would you like to see in a next gen console?
 
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post #288 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

If you could choose from all AMD processors out now for PCs which one would you like to see in a next gen console?

Probably a Bulldozer. They're not the best PC CPUs, but I believe if they were used in a console they could be very efficient. In the Xbox I would prefer that they continue using a similar architecture so that the next Xbox will run 360 games, but the PS3 should definitely move on to something like the 360 is using, or an x86 processor, to make development easier and cheaper.
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post #289 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Probably a Bulldozer. They're not the best PC CPUs, but I believe if they were used in a console they could be very efficient. In the Xbox I would prefer that they continue using a similar architecture so that the next Xbox will run 360 games, but the PS3 should definitely move on to something like the 360 is using, or an x86 processor, to make development easier and cheaper.

I agree full force.

Do you develop for all three platforms?


I just don't see console makers going with a fully versatile consumer CPU. It seems like those extra instruction sets would just go to waste in my limited knowledge.
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post #290 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post

I agree full force.
Do you develop for all three platforms?
I just don't see console makers going with a fully versatile consumer CPU. It seems like those extra instruction sets would just go to waste in my limited knowledge.

Current products(s) is/are for at least PC, I'm not allowed to mention which other platforms may be supported. Not allowed to talk about much until the product(s) I'm working on is/are announced publicly. Yes, I know, boring.
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