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[FB] Apple Snubs Firm That Discovered Mac Botnet, Tries To Cut Off Its Server Monitoring Infections - Page 9

post #81 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post



How about I make things real easy for you?  Prove I called this specific malware a "virus"  You claimed I did, now prove it.
doh.gif
Quote:
to divert argument to unrelated issues using a red herring
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Please don't talk about things you have no idea about AND (emphasizing AND) use terms like ignorance. People like Dr. Web and Kaspersky and the Symantec crew all know how to fight AND find vulnerabilities. They are the experts, and they have found them.

Did anyone here ever say that Symantec didn't know how to find vulnerabilities? Nope. Did anyone claim they haven't found Flashback? Nope.


Are you going to keep trying to divert the discussion away from what was being discussed? If you'd like to learn how to write a virus for Windows: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+write+a+virus
This isn't the right forum to be talking about that anyways. I said "others thinking that this silly piece of spyware that modifies pages in Safari is a virus". I said you don't know what you're talking by trying to claim that market-share is the reason OSX doesn't have viruses and thinking you can't get Viruses on Windows without user interaction. You don't even have to open the files manually on Windows. Just download a torrent and it automatically runs itself. Check your mail and it's automatically executed. Stick an infected USB drive into your computer and it automatically infects your system. Be on the same network as another infected machine and you're now infected or a simple windows shortcut icon known as "CPLINK" that you don't have to open either. It doesn't ask you for your administrator username and password because it doesn't need it. One of the important aspects of what a virus is.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 4/11/12 at 7:03pm
post #82 of 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post



How about I make things real easy for you?  Prove I called this specific malware a "virus"  You claimed I did, now prove it.
doh.gif
Quote:
to divert argument to unrelated issues using a red herring
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Please don't talk about things you have no idea about AND (emphasizing AND) use terms like ignorance. People like Dr. Web and Kaspersky and the Symantec crew all know how to fight AND find vulnerabilities. They are the experts, and they have found them.

Did anyone here ever say that Symantec didn't know how to find vulnerabilities? Nope. Did anyone claim they haven't found Flashback? Nope.


Are you going to keep trying to divert the discussion away from what was being discussed? If you'd like to learn how to write a virus for Windows: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+write+a+virus
This isn't the right forum to be talking about that anyways. I said "others thinking that this silly piece of spyware that modifies pages in Safari is a virus". I said you don't know what you're talking by trying to claim that market-share is the reason OSX isn't targeted and thinking you can't get Viruses on Windows without user interaction. You don't even have to open the files manually on Windows. Just download a torrent and it automatically runs itself. Check your mail and it's automatically executed. Stick an infected USB drive into your computer and it automatically infects your system. It doesn't ask you for your administrator username and password because it doesn't need it. One of the important aspects of what a virus is.

 

Since you won't prove anything you have claimed about me, and keep back pedaling....


I made the claim that Mac's market share is the reason they don't get viruses?  Can you prove I said that?  Here since you won't find it, I will do it for you:

Quoting Me - Post #68

How many "Mac" users were there 11 years ago?  You are flat out wrong, if you don't know the market share has greatly increased since 2001.

 

Edit: Estimated 6% total PC market share to a whopping 11% from 07 to 12.

 

HERE you can see me saying nothing of the sort.  Which is why you failed every single time to prove anything that spews out your keyboard.

 

USB Drives can be disabled in BIOS, USB Drives can be disabled by local policy or global policy, USB Drive access can be restricted to Power User, Local User, or Admin or a combination.  If you don't know how to setup up your computer, isn't that on you?

 

Downloading torrents.... do you mean .torrents?  Because thats not a real .torrent if its a virus/malware/file.  Again all of these are user actions.  How did a USB get infected in the first place?  What mail automatically executes virus?  Do you mean Macro viruses or PDFs or numerous Zip files which must be interacted by a user before they spread?

 

You don't even have to open the files manually?  What files?  Infected files?  Well how did they get on the computer in the first place?  They just spawn there, or did a User download them?

 

I already explained why "viruses" don't work in the Linux/Unix environment is because the default user account has no permission to do anything therefore can not harm serious system operation.  However, exploitation is always there, proven time and time again and hacker events and conferences.  There is a reason why they haven't pushed these exploits out on OSX and it has nothing to do with how "secure" it is.  They still have access to your personal information through malware, spyware, adware, worms, trojans, keyloggers....  you have very little protection from what users can do/download off the internet.

 

OSX is less secure then Linux, in that, certain Linux distros update quicker, fixing security exploits.  SO if you want to know the most secure system... guess what, its not OSX.  I don't see you rallying behind Nix, or closed circuit systems.

 

When I made the claim of those experts finding exploits, they are the same exploits used for creating malicious software like viruses.  Having no viruses, does not mean there are no exploits.  We know OSX has vulnerabilities, I believe to date there have been 63 catastrophic/root-access type vulnerabilities, each one unique.  This doesn't include child vulnerabilities or minor ones either.  63 Potential Viruses could have been made by those who have found it.  Just recently and Pwn2Own, they had a sandboxed Safari browser exploit that allowed writing to disk without root-access.


Edited by RagingCain - 4/11/12 at 7:08pm
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post #83 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Are you going to keep trying to divert the discussion away from what was being discussed?

im sorry, didnt you derail this thread for the sake of you personal vendetta against the generalization of the word "virus"?
try actually posting something pertaining to the OP because youre certainly not discussing the actual thread topic

here, i'll "hold your hand" through this next part.

the current topic is located at the top of the page. it is, and i quote, "Apple Snubs Firm That Discovered Mac Botnet, Tries To Cut Off Its Server Monitoring Infections." theres a link to an article in the first post.
youre currently talking about what a virus really is, how apple is more secure than windows, and generally flaming anyone you cross paths with.

OT

are people actually surprised by this? im, by no means, a fan of apple. but really, if a company of any kind had flubbed on something like that, they'd obviously be pulling dmg control ASAP. rolleyes.gif just a company being a usual company, though i do realize apple has a bit of a standard to live up to in terms of infection on their OS.
    
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post #84 of 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:

Since you won't prove anything you have claimed about me, and keep back pedaling....

I made the claim that Mac's market share is the reason they don't get viruses?  Can you prove I said that?  Here since won't find it, I will do it for you:


USB Drives can be disabled in BIOS, USB Drives can be disabled by local policy or global policy, USB Drive access can be restricted to Power User, Local User, or Admin or a combination.  If you don't know how to setup up your computer, isn't that on you?

Downloading torrents.... do you mean .torrents?  Because thats not a real .torrent if its a virus/malware/file.  Again all of these are user actions.  How did a USB get infected in the first place?  What mail automatically executes virus?  Do you mean Macro viruses or PDFs or numerous Zip files which must be interacted by a user before they spread?

You don't even have to open the files manually?  What files?  Infected files?  Well how did they get on the computer in the first place?  They just spawn there, or did a User download them?

I already explained why "viruses" don't work in the Linux/Unix environment is because the default user account has no permission to do anything therefore can not harm serious system operation.  However, exploitation is always there, proven time and time again and hacker events and conferences.  There is a reason why they haven't pushed these exploits out on OSX and it has nothing to do with how "secure" it is.  They still have access to your personal information through malware, spyware, adware, worms, trojans, keyloggers....  you have very little protection from what users can do/download off the internet.

OSX is less secure then Linux, in that, certain Linux distros update quicker, fixing security exploits.  SO if you want to know the most secure system... guess what, its not OSX.  I don't see you rallying behind Nix, or closed circuit systems.

Are you really this thick? There are limitless ways a file can get on your machine. Browsing a website, simply being connected to the internet or on a local network with another infected machine, mail client checking your mail and so on You don't have to personally touch the files at all for them to infect your system. Simply being on your machine is enough for Windows to automatically load the infected file. Google "CPLINK" which affected all version of versions, Google "DLL loading". There really are thousands of ways for viruses to spread on Windows without the user knowing or initiating the files responsible for infection. Outlook checks your mail and downloads the attachments automatically. You don't have to even read the mail for it to infect your computer. As soon as the binary is on your machine, it can automatically infect your machine. You don't need to manually double click on the file to open it like you seem to think. Trying to disable a USB via Windows' Local Policy won't stop anything. it still communicates with the device regardless if you let the user use it or not.

Unfortunately, the only one here who hasn't proved anything is yourself. I don't get why you need someone to explain to you what you already said:
  • You asked me to prove that I didn't say Symantec doesn't know how to find vulnerabilities. All you have to do it go back and read and you'll see that nowhere did I say that.
  • You asked me to prove that Symantec didn't find any vulnerabilities for OSX. Again, read what I actually wrote and you'll see I never said they haven't.
  • Then you try to claim that market-share is the reason OSX isn't infected as much as windows but don't actually have any evidence to support that. When OS 9 existed with a far less userbase then exists today with OSX, there was quite a few viruses for it. Yet, today, even with over 50 million users on OSX, there hasn't been a single virus.
  • You tried to claim that I said you called Flashback a virus. You failed to comprehend what was actually said. I only said "others" were guilty of that. You were guilty of being ignorant thinking user-base was the reason for the fewer vulnerabilities and thinking that you can't get viruses without user interaction on Windows. See above paragraph.

You continue to try and change to try and change the subject in order to divert attention away from your false statements when confronted about them. You also seem to be ignorant of what kernel OSX is running. I'll let you Google that one to hopefully educate yourself on before commenting again about *nix OSs.

 

Which viruses can you get through email being sent by an exchange server?  You are telling me I am at risk just for having Outlook on my computer?  I am crawling with infections because it automates downloading of emails while I am or not running it?  Viruses spreading wild all over my GBs?

 

CPLINK According to Wiki

CPLINK and Win32/CplLnk.A are names for a Microsoft Windows shortcut icon vulnerability discovered in June 2010 and patched on 2 August[1][2] that affected all Windows operating systems. The vulnerabilty is exploitable when any Windows application that display shortcut icons, such as Windows Explorer,[3] browses to a folder containing a malicious shortcut.[4] The exploit can be triggered without any user interaction, regardless where the shortcut file is located.[4][5]

 

So you had to download the malicious shortcut first.  It didn't magically appear on your computer to begin with causing an infection.

 

Regarding the rest of your ranting and raving:

Where did I say for you to do anything OTHER than prove things YOU say? I didn't ask you to prove anything other than what you have been typing or falsely claiming about me.  You still can't prove anything you have said.

 

You have distastefully taken this so far off topic, and haven't said any useful or correct information.  I apologize to the others who came here.  You need to stop pretending any one is bashing OSX, nobody has, I have even explained why its hard to write a virus type exploit for OSX or any nix environment, but shored up a claim that Windows, 7 specifically, can be just as secure when properly administrated.

 

Further more, I have not even come close to making any statement up above you have claimed.

 

People who do not know what they are talking about can't hide it very long when they talk.

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post #85 of 103
Wow, guys SHUTUP already. Mac was in the wrong and java was in the wrong. Both are fixing the issues just like microsoft fixes there issues. No OS is better than Another OS, it is all in the eyes of the user. No put down your fan bats before someone ends up bleeding on the floor. Shake hands and put the double edged sword back in the stone.
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post #86 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Quote:

Which viruses can you get through email being sent by an exchange server?  You are telling me I am at risk just for having Outlook on my computer?  I am crawling with infections because it automates downloading of emails while I am or not running it?  Viruses spreading wild all over my GBs?

CPLINK According to Wiki
CPLINK
 and 
Win32/CplLnk.A
 are names for a Microsoft 
Windows shortcut
 icon 
vulnerability
 discovered in June 2010 and patched on 2 August
[1]

[2]

 that affected all Windows operating systems. The vulnerabilty is exploitable when any Windows application that display shortcut icons, such as 
Windows Explorer
,
[3]

 browses to a folder containing a malicious shortcut.
[4]

 The exploit can be triggered without any user interaction, regardless where the shortcut file is located.
[4]

[5]



So you had to download the malicious shortcut first.  It didn't magically appear on your computer to begin with causing an infection.


Regarding the rest of your ranting and raving:
Where did I say for you to do anything OTHER than prove things YOU say? I didn't ask you to prove anything other than what you have been typing or falsely claiming about me.  You still can't prove anything you have said.

"]You have distastefully taken this so far off topic, and haven't said any useful or correct information.  I apologize to the others who came here.  You need to stop pretending any one is bashing OSX, nobody has, I have even explained why its hard to write a virus type exploit for OSX or any nix environment, but shored up a claim that Windows, 7 specifically, can be just as secure when properly administrated.


Further more, I have not even come close to making any statement up above you have claimed.


People who do not know what they are talking about can't hide it very long when they talk.

You skipped over the crucial part: The exploit can be triggered without any user interaction, regardless where the shortcut file is located.
you don't need to click on anything for the exploit to work, even if you have AutoPlay and AutoRun disabled.

Your attempt to play word games isn't helping you. Not clicking on anything is the definition of non-user interaction. It doesn't get more simple than that. Simply browsing the web is enough to get the file onto your machine. This exploit was spread via embeds in websites. You did not have to download anything.

This is of course, one of many methods of infecting a Windows machine. DLL loading has been a frequent method virus writers use to infect machines as well. Your lack of the knowledge on the subject is making you incorrectly assume that there isn't any way to infect a machine without any user interaction. Again, a logical fallacy.

Anyways, you are once again, attempting to divert the discussion off topic and not contributing anything towards this thread.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 4/11/12 at 8:36pm
post #87 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by downlinx View Post

Wow, guys SHUTUP already. Mac was in the wrong and java was in the wrong. Both are fixing the issues just like microsoft fixes there issues. No OS is better than Another OS, it is all in the eyes of the user. No put down your fan bats before someone ends up bleeding on the floor. Shake hands and put the double edged sword back in the stone.

Yeah I know...both of them are defending terribly designed and flawed OSes. The only good one is Linux. /sarcasm

Honestly, after all these pages...(maybe I missed someone stating this) but can we really call Apple acting like themselves (the attempt to bury this kind of news) NEWS?
     
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post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Yeah I know...both of them are defending terribly designed and flawed OSes. The only good one is Linux. /sarcasm
Honestly, after all these pages...(maybe I missed someone stating this) but can we really call Apple acting like themselves (the attempt to bury this kind of news) NEWS?

I chuckled at your comment.
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post #89 of 103
WE all know the best os was IBM PC DOS arguing that is futile

Also anyone want popcorn?

apple porn virus anyone?

^_^

And does it matter? Its a shame that mac tryed to take out the monitering of the botnet, but cant we all get along rolleyes.gif
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post #90 of 103
Wow, this thread was definitely interesting to read.

Off-topic question: How do you ignore a user? I saw several mentions of that, and I would like to add a certain person who's username starts with a P to that list.

On-topic: This thread is about Apple trying to hush up any bad press, which is what Apple does, and is typical of them. They would rather hide things than admit fault/guilt. Sure, they may have released a service bulletin, but purely as a CYA measure. I am betting they did nothing to publicize the service bulletin, and instead tried to release it as discreetly as possible, so that 99% of people won't know about the potential flaw, but they can claim they did inform their users.

Here's my perspective on why there isn't as many viruses on OSX: Viruses are for deep level penetration through firewalls and antivirus. Many Windows computers tend to be well protected against malware, which necessitates a need for deeper level penetration. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't the point of a virus to install other malware, or perform malware-like actions? There's no profit to wiping a hard drive, but there is immense profit in obtaining credit card numbers, etc, which is something keyloggers do. And things like keyloggers tend to be malware. Since OSX users typically do not have the same deep protection against malware, it's easier to just simply right tons of malware to exploit it, rather than a deep level virus.

The above paragraph is purely speculation on my part based on what I hear and read. It is in no way to be taken as fact, nor do I have any proof to back it up.
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Millenium Falcon
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Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool Repack Dual D5 Watercool Heatkiller 3.0 Alphacool GTX 690 fullcover Bitspower Big Bang Xpower II fullcover 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 64-bit Professional 3x Dell S2340 Max Keyboard Durandal CoolerMaster V1000 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [FB] Apple Snubs Firm That Discovered Mac Botnet, Tries To Cut Off Its Server Monitoring Infections