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post #12 of 28
Well...

You could just be at your max. Not a bottleneck, but overall system specs maximized
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post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

doh.gif
You can never improve a "bottleneck" (I'll rant on that term later) by increasing the demand on the hardware.
I hate the term bottleneck. You'll always have a limiting-component regardless of what you're doing. At low-resolution gaming (think like 800x600), the requirements are usually such that for each rendered frame, your graphics card can accomplish its task for that res. faster than your CPU can finish what it needs to do--so your CPU is the limiting component.
Switch that to the other end--game at 1920x1080, and generally it's your CPU that can accomplish what it needs to before your GPU--so the GPU becomes the limiting component.
But you cannot alleviate a bottleneck by increasing graphical demands, only (potentially) change which component is the limiting factor.
Also, keep in mind, that it's an archaic assumption that your CPU is "less important" at higher-resolution and higher-detail settings. That may have been the case 5-8 years ago given the graphical implementations, but it's no longer the case--CPU usage generally scales with resolution and various game engine post-processing methods. At best, you can only get the same FPS at higher resolutions as lower res. But more than likely you'll get much lower.

Actually, whether or not increasing gfx settings helps 'alleviate' a CPU BN on the GPU kinda depends on your own definition of the word. Certainly if one expects that 'alleviate' means you magically get higher FPS, then you are 100% right, they are going to be disappointed in that regard. It doesn't work that way.

AFA your last point goes, I'll offer some small clarification ... it really shouldn't be the case that the cpu load for a game 'scales' (i.e. increases) very much with resolution. Increased resolution should really not affect the CPU load OTHER than potentially lowering it, by causing the GPU to work harder and hence, 'slower' in terms of FPS.

However, the point that there are often 'graphics' settings that, in actuality, increase the CPU load as much, or even more than, the GPU load, is one worth making for sure.

Just for one example offhand, the 'physics' quality if a game has such a setting, is very likely to impact CPU usage more than GPU usage, and there's numerous other settings that one may find in various games that are like this as well.

Crysis 1 example has a number of settings that will increase CPU usage when turned up, such that Crysis on all Low requires minimal CPU effort (i.e. it's easy to get 100+ fps), but Crysis on Very High can also get CPU BN'd at much LESS than 100fps with the same gear ... so this general rule of increased settings = decreased CPU BN is not always reliable, it's just a general guideline.

So whilst, at least by one definition of the term, it's definitely possible to 'alleviate' one's CPU BN (or the phenomenon of the CPU being a limiting factor to FPS, at least on some percentage of the total frames rendered, if you prefer wink.gif) via increasing certain game quality settings, you do have to kind of have an understanding of how various gfx options impact both CPU and GPU load in order to do this effectively.

If you want a general guideline, increasing resolution and AA/AF levels for sure should not directly affect relative CPU load. Just about any other setting though, depending on the game, MIGHT.

And one should not expect that 'alleviating a CPU bottleneck' means 'moar FPS', because it most certainly doesn't mean that. In fact, it's the opposite ... the way that you get rid of a CPU BN is by increasing the GPU load, which then makes the game run SLOWER ... thus the CPU has an easier time keeping up with the demands for information.
Edited by brettjv - 4/16/12 at 8:05am
    
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post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

doh.gif

You can never improve a "bottleneck" (I'll rant on that term later) by increasing the demand on the hardware.

I hate the term bottleneck. You'll always have a limiting-component regardless of what you're doing. At low-resolution gaming (think like 800x600), the requirements are usually such that for each rendered frame, your graphics card can accomplish its task for that res. faster than your CPU can finish what it needs to do--so your CPU is the limiting component.

Switch that to the other end--game at 1920x1080, and generally it's your CPU that can accomplish what it needs to before your GPU--so the GPU becomes the limiting component.

But you cannot alleviate a bottleneck by increasing graphical demands, only (potentially) change which component is the limiting factor.

Also, keep in mind, that it's an archaic assumption that your CPU is "less important" at higher-resolution and higher-detail settings. That may have been the case 5-8 years ago given the graphical implementations, but it's no longer the case--CPU usage generally scales with resolution and various game engine post-processing methods. At best, you can only get the same FPS at higher resolutions as lower res. But more than likely you'll get much lower.

+1

Bottleneck seems to be commonly misused to describe a problem rather than component limited.


Component Limited:

Let's use a quad-core and a high-end GPU for this example. When you are playing at a lower resolution (1080p or less) in a game that is very dependent on the CPU, changing your graphics settings will probably not affect FPS much and overclocking your CPU or upgrading it would make a huge difference.

This same game though will probably flip sides as you bump up the resolution. Let's crank it up to a 3 screen setup with three 1080p screens. Now you are most likely GPU-limited and would have to decrease graphics settings a little or overclock/upgrade your GPU to get more FPS.

So as you can see either the CPU or GPU can be the limiting factor in a component limited system. This is why it's important to consider what games and work loads will be done and at what resolution when building a computer.

A component-limited situation is when a component is holding back the system in a certain workload.


Bottleneck:

A bottleneck would occur when you have a component that is too weak to ever push the rest of the system.

A good example would be a low end dual-core trying to power a high-end GPU. Using the same examples as above we would see that no matter what resolution and graphics settings we set, the GPU will never be fully pushed. No matter what settings you use, the CPU will always be under full load and the GPU will barely get used at all since it is always waiting on the CPU.

So a bottleneck is when you have one component holding back the system.
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post #15 of 28
I go through that hell myself. My CPU is a i7 960 @ 3.2 Ghz and it's unable to OC because of the Mobo is either incapable and/or my cooling isn't good enough to OC it (Corsair H20 T_T). I got it to 3.4 once, and it can only stay there for about 2 hours before bluescreen of death comes on and raped me. Tried everything...couldn't get it to OC. So it constantly bottle necking my SLI EVGA 580 Classy Ultra. I play GTA4 modded to the hilt and it is known to be a game that strain CPU instead of GPU and with all the high res texture and car mods and script mods, it doesn't help.(I know because BF3 and Crysis 2 runs in well excess of 80FPS on average) . So the max I ever get out of my GTA4 is about 40FPS, which is play able, but not good enough for me.

One trick I do use though. I use Gamebooster 2.3, it closes all none required process and services that are using CPU and RAM and let them concentrate on the game itself. This does the trick for me, FPS on average is 65 to 70. Love it!

I'm in Step Up to 2 new GTX 680 and going to buy a 3rd one for 3way SLI...if I can find one, god damn they're hot, can't find one anywhere (that's all my mobo support), changing to Corsair H100 + SSD (yes, I don't have SSD), perhaps then I can OC and not having to utilize Gamebooster anymore.
post #16 of 28
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GameBooster actually helps?
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post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzy View Post

GameBooster actually helps?

Yes. I used to use it for Skyrim and STALKER before I upgraded my RAM to 12gigs. Like Taco said it closes processes and services in order to free up memory and cpu usage. Give it a shot it is worth checking out.
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post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzy View Post

GameBooster actually helps?

I use it, i think it helps. I t shut down un-needed processes, so sure it does.
post #19 of 28
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Yup I tried it. It does work, thanks.
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post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacongcohan View Post

I go through that hell myself. My CPU is a i7 960 @ 3.2 Ghz and it's unable to OC because of the Mobo is either incapable and/or my cooling isn't good enough to OC it (Corsair H20 T_T). I got it to 3.4 once, and it can only stay there for about 2 hours before bluescreen of death comes on and raped me. Tried everything...couldn't get it to OC. So it constantly bottle necking my SLI EVGA 580 Classy Ultra. I play GTA4 modded to the hilt and it is known to be a game that strain CPU instead of GPU and with all the high res texture and car mods and script mods, it doesn't help.(I know because BF3 and Crysis 2 runs in well excess of 80FPS on average) . So the max I ever get out of my GTA4 is about 40FPS, which is play able, but not good enough for me.
One trick I do use though. I use Gamebooster 2.3, it closes all none required process and services that are using CPU and RAM and let them concentrate on the game itself. This does the trick for me, FPS on average is 65 to 70. Love it!
I'm in Step Up to 2 new GTX 680 and going to buy a 3rd one for 3way SLI...if I can find one, god damn they're hot, can't find one anywhere (that's all my mobo support), changing to Corsair H100 + SSD (yes, I don't have SSD), perhaps then I can OC and not having to utilize Gamebooster anymore.

No offense but that sounds like a total plug for the company
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