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Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 , WD Caviar Black or Hitachi 7K1000.D - Page 3

post #21 of 33
The seagates are cheaper cause wd overcharges for its cavier blacks. They great drives, faster then cavier blacks and in my experince not as 'unreliable' as they are being made here. The reason people like you stay a way from seagtes is the same reason people stay away from acer, the same reason dell uses manly intels and the same reason people buy ms office. Branding. Its stupid, uninformed and dosnt belong here. If someone has a reason to stay away from seagate, i respect that. But this 'no real reason' is just bs.
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

The seagates are cheaper cause wd overcharges for its cavier blacks. They great drives, faster then cavier blacks and in my experince not as 'unreliable' as they are being made here. The reason people like you stay a way from seagtes is the same reason people stay away from acer, the same reason dell uses manly intels and the same reason people buy ms office. Branding. Its stupid, uninformed and dosnt belong here. If someone has a reason to stay away from seagate, i respect that. But this 'no real reason' is just bs.
Quote:
The ST2000DM001 is a 2-platter drive, so it should be highly reliable. But it's also a Seagate. Seagate bungled the launch batches of their 7200.10, 7200.12, Momentus XT, LP 5900, and Momentus 7200 drives. The 7200.11 generation was completely bad due to a firmware glitch which can brick the drives. The ST2000DM001 is a relatively new drive - the highest platter density of any drive so far, and also the fastest - but it is new. Do you like to gamble? biggrin.gif To make it even more risky, Seagate slashed their warranty back.

I had a raid0 array fail, both seagates at the SAME TIME and when I went to RMA it said serial not found, aimlessly wandering their website, trying to contact them, emails... no luck. I ended up throwing out in warranty drives. WD RMA is amazing, next day air after they process your RMA, they can do an advanced RMA if you want and they usually upgrade your drive.. I don't get what else you want
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post #23 of 33
if they failed at the same time it was likely not the drives and more likely the controller or some connecting problem. the odds of even the most unreliable drive failing at the exact same time is like 1/1000000000000
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

if they failed at the same time it was likely not the drives and more likely the controller or some connecting problem. the odds of even the most unreliable drive failing at the exact same time is like 1/1000000000000
I had a RAID 0+1 array break because of two Seagates failing simultaneously. One was giving me I/O flatlines, so I RMA'd it and ordered another. (RMA's can take over a month in Canada) Within a few days (before I got a replacement in) another drive broke completely - failed to spin up, no SMART warning. Array dead.

With other companies I would say coincidence. With Seagate, there are enough people out there with bad experiences like that - I don't think it's coincidence. Something in their design is flawed or made cheaper than the other brands. There's also the issue that all my RMA'd Seagate drives failed again, and some failed a third time. After that unreliable streak, I relegated them to systems where they'd be idle rather than being put under any wear and tear. So far so good, but I still don't trust them.

All my RMA'd WD drives have not failed. WD sends me brand new drives, and Seagate sends repaired refurbs. redface.gif I use WD drives in any system that'll be under heavy load. Usually they outlast their warranties. (I had a Raptor last 9 years of 16/7/365 use - over 3 hours per day of heavy I/O.)
     
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post #25 of 33
you your self said things change so fast you cant keep up, thats why you suggested the hitchi.... or are you implying a double standard? where hchichi gets to turn a new leaf and be reliable but seagates always not? you seem to be giving contradictory statements here. ive never, ever had a problem with a seagate, they're faster, cheaper, and seem to me from my experience of on-par reliability. in fact, i have a raid five array in my home sever running right now... 4 years and counting. dont get me wrong, wds a great brand and you cant go wrong with a black, but i don't think seagates being given enough credit here. it also amuses me how kramy, the one with the OCZ ssd can be telling us what drives arnt and are reliable
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

you your self said things change so fast you cant keep up, thats why you suggested the hitchi.... or are you implying a double standard?
No double standard. I tested both 7200.10 and 7200.12 (skipped the POS 7200.11's tongue.gif ) Will 7200.14 prove the same? Time will tell. wink.gif

Seagate has really bad launches. Nearly all their newly released products end up having reliability/longevity issues. (7200.10, 7200.11, launch 7200.12's, launch Momentus XT 500GB's, LP 5900 drives, etc.) A generation or two might be a fluke, but 5+ generations or lines is not. There is an issue with their design, and we won't know if it has been corrected for a few years. frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

where hchichi gets to turn a new leaf and be reliable but seagates always not? you seem to be giving contradictory statements here.
Hitachi was "turning over a new leaf" with their 7K1000.C generation - unlike the gens before then, there weren't many reports of drive failures. Of course, the .C didn't have the raw performance that it needed. 7K1000.D (and their 2TB/3TB drives) continue the trend of their drives being reliable while bringing performance way ahead. Seagate drives instead have had shaky launches, often die within warranty, etc.; they also just cut their warranties back, so that tells you how much faith they have in their products. The trend is bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

ive never, ever had a problem with a seagate, they're faster, cheaper, and seem to me from my experience of on-par reliability. in fact, i have a raid five array in my home sever running right now... 4 years and counting. dont get me wrong, wds a great brand and you cant go wrong with a black, but i don't think seagates being given enough credit here. it also amuses me how kramy, the one with the OCZ ssd can be telling us what drives arnt and are reliable
Good for you.

Don't get me started on OCZ SSDs. That company just doesn't grasp Firmware. Honestly, the company is a bit like Seagate - almost every product they launch has reliability issues for a while. tongue.gif My Solid2 30GB (Indilinx) drive kept corrupting data until v1.7 firmware came out - getting it was more of a price based decision. At the time an Intel 80GB SSD cost about $300, so I couldn't turn down 30GB for under $90.

That said, it is a bit ironic - I installed some OCZ SSDs in some business PCs a few years back. Never installed any firmware updates, and have never had any issues. But after the debacle with my Indilinx SSD, I did research SSD firmware far more to try to understand how it works. I've been recommending M4's to people for a long time now - I started recommending them about 3 months before they became popular on Overclock.net. Back then everyone was saying, "No, go SF-2281!" (And everyone that did got to enjoy 6+ months of BSODs. tongue.gif )

Edit: The way this thread is going, you're probably going to want examples, or you'll just ignore what I've written.

-7200.10's had a chirping issue. After the drives started chirping, they would fail within 6-24 months. (100% failure rate within my test batch of 8; different rigs, different controllers, different PSUs)
-7200.11's had the firmware issue which bricked the drive. (affected the entire generation)
-Many launch 7200.12's failed within a year or two, although subsequent batches were okay. That's how the Samsung F3 1TB's gained popularity here - so many people were having issues with Seagate drives, at the time...
-Launch Momentus XT 500GB's had their lockup issues, high power consumption, inadequate caching performance. (Their stable firmware scored about as bad as a Scorpio Black 500GB in games; bad, since the Momentus XT drives cost double.) Later Seagate released beta firmware and eventually corrected that. Oh, and the random death issues. (Lots of people were complaining on forums about their launch 500GB XT's dying without warning one day. It appears to be a firmware issue which bricks the drives. There is no SMART warning.) Few people with the Beta firmware complained about such bricking, but I can't say whether that's because the beta firmware corrected it, or just because of the percentage using "Stable" vs "Beta" firmware.
-LP 5900 drives had several bad launch batches. (bad as in "Paperweight") At one point the Newegg reviews were 90% 1-star. Some people had bought 6+ drives for RAID arrays, only to have 6/6 die within a month. Tons of the drives were just DOA, and their replacements died soon after. The issues were corrected within 2 months, but by then LP 5900 drives had an extremely bad rap. It's no surprise Seagate axed the line.

Now don't get me wrong. Other companies have flawed batches and generations too. WD, for example, seemed to have issues producing 4-platter drives. Their 4-platter Greens had very high 6-12 month failure rates. I'd guess that like the LP 5900 drives, their launch batches were up around 100%. The company replaced all RMA'd 4-platter Greens with brand new 3-platter Greens. And while 1TB Blacks (2-platter) were down around a 1-2% annual failure rate, their 2TB Blacks (4-platter) were up around 10%. That's a lot higher!

Still, it's not as bad as Seagate. And just because you lucked out doesn't mean other people will. People have posted threads asking which drives are the most reliable, and by far all the horror stories are Seagate ones. On overclock.net it seems that for every 2 people that had an issue with a WD/Samsung/Hitachi drive, there are 8 or more that have had issues with Seagate drives.
Edited by Kramy - 4/19/12 at 3:56pm
     
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post #27 of 33
Haha yeah sf sucks. What are the percentages on these? Failure rates of western digital vs seagate drives? Wds might be better, but if seagates is already like .05 percent it might not matter and then i would say chose the barracuda for speed
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

Haha yeah sf sucks. What are the percentages on these? Failure rates of western digital vs seagate drives? Wds might be better, but if seagates is already like .05 percent it might not matter and then i would say chose the barracuda for speed
Seagate's annual failure rate is apparently 1-2%. But it's been proven that not all RMA's count as failures, because the 7200.11 generation certainly did not have a 1-2% failure rate; nor did the 5900 LP's. rolleyes.gif If you send a drive in and they repair it and send it out again, it's not considered a failure. Firmware issues aren't considered failures. That means most of the Momentus XT issues weren't "failures", because it wasn't mechanical failure. (Just firmware issues.)

By that definition, companies like OCZ must have a 0.05% annual failure rate? tongue.gif

WD's statistics are more accurate. I don't recall the exact numbers, but their mumbo jumbo in one of their long PDF reports had numbers from 1-2% for Blacks/Raptors, and around 4% for Blues. It was all statistics terminology, so I couldn't repeat it if I tried. That's annual failure rates within warranty.
     
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post #29 of 33
they still look at least on par. as a side note, weren't most momentus xt issues fixed in the sen gen?
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

they still look at least on par. as a side note, weren't most momentus xt issues fixed in the sen gen?
I haven't looked into them recently. But when I did, I didn't see any huge threads with people complaining and bashing the product. So yes, the Momentus XT 750GB Gen2's may be solid.
     
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Pisen Card Reader Gigabyte M7 Thor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
VIA Eden C7 1200mhz Jetway J7F4K1G2ES-LF VIA Onboard 512MB PC2-4200 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
A-Data FlashDrive None Fanless Linux 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Headless None 65w Power Brick Antec ISK300-65 
MouseAudio
None Onboard VIA 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Barton XP-M 2400+ FJQ4C Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe 256MB BFG 7800GS OC 2x512MB Samsung PC3200 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Raptor 74GB/Seagate 120GB Windows 2000 Pro 60hz 17" CRT Brandless PS2 Keyboard 
PowerMouse
Antec Neo HE 550w Logitech G5 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 @ 4.6ghz 1.425v Sabertooth 990FX Zotac GTX 1070 Amp! 32GB (4x8GB) Kingston Fury 1866mhz CL10 1T 1.5v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Hitachi 2TB - HDS723020BLA64 Crucial M500 960GB - CT960M500SSD1 WD 4TB Black - WD4001FAEX WD 4TB Black - WD4001FAEX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Seagate 2TB - ST2000DM001 WD 640GB Black - WD6401AALS Seagate 6TB - ST6000DM001 Micron M500 - MTFDDAK480MAV 
Optical DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
Pioneer DVR-115DBK Samsung SH-S243D/BEBE LG GH22NS90 Lite-On EBAU108 External DVD 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Noctua NH-D15 Fractal Design 140mm Fan - FD-FAN-140 Fractal Design 120mm Fan - FD-FAN-120 Windows 7 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Samsung 2343BWX 23" (2048x1152) BenQ GW2765HT 27" IPS LCD Monitor (2560x1440) Genius Keyboard KB-G235 PA 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic Platinum 1000w PSU - SS-1000XP Fractal Design Define R5 Steelseries Rival 6500 dcpi Mousepad + Desk 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Onboard Realtek® ALC 892 Cyber Acoustics CA-2992 2.0 Speakers Razer Krait 1600 DPI nGear G-C1601 Card Reader 
OtherOther
Pisen Card Reader Gigabyte M7 Thor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
VIA Eden C7 1200mhz Jetway J7F4K1G2ES-LF VIA Onboard 512MB PC2-4200 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
A-Data FlashDrive None Fanless Linux 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Headless None 65w Power Brick Antec ISK300-65 
MouseAudio
None Onboard VIA 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Barton XP-M 2400+ FJQ4C Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe 256MB BFG 7800GS OC 2x512MB Samsung PC3200 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Raptor 74GB/Seagate 120GB Windows 2000 Pro 60hz 17" CRT Brandless PS2 Keyboard 
PowerMouse
Antec Neo HE 550w Logitech G5 
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