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Multi-Radiator setups? - Page 2

post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
haha, yeah, I definitely +Rep'd both of you for your contributions to my questions. Again, thank you both for the information. I'm just trying to be one of those perfectionists that tries to get it all together and planned out BEFORE I order things.
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
@ bakageta

I see your point as far as the benefits of having a single loop. Honestly, I hadn't really considered that because I was worried about dumping the CPU or GPU heat into each other. Especially since ideally you would want the top card to be getting the coolest water first, since that's going to be the card carrying the load when I'm not doing things that even take advantage of the other 3 cards, and even when running them at close to full load, really no matter what you do the primary card carries close to 2/3 of the load due to slot limitation in a quad SLI setup (correct me if I'm completely off base). However, doing a single loop with say RES>PUMP>CPU>MB Blocks>RAD1>GPU1>GPU2>GPU3>GPU4>RAD2>RAD3>RAD4>RES etc etc or even RES>PUMP>GPU1>GPU2>GPU3>GPU4>RAD1>RAD2>RAD3>CPU>MB Blocks>RAD4>RES etc etc (1st SEEMING better imo), I'd be looking at an extreme pump setup such as the Iwaki RD-30 (since running 2 seperate pumps in a single loop seems to be stressful on the pumps and not worth the cost for the performance you get) in order to get it to overcome all the restriction from the blocks.

Based on that, I'm not really sure (I am new to this and trying to understand) that in this case a single loop would be as much benefit as it would pain in the butt as far as trying to maintain enough flow. Now don't get me wrong, I've looked into more things and decided to go with a different CPU block to try to reduce as much restriction as possible. Cost isn't the issue, it's more about maintaining the lowest possible temps in a hot Texas environment. I also know it seems redundant to talk about restriction when I'm considering running 3-4 480 rads and 4 GPU blocks. I'm just trying to decide on the BEST possible performance, whether it's a balance of flow and cooling, or just a hardcore, low deltas and high flow system. I'm looking to OC a 3960X to around 5.4ghz and at least 3/4 of the gpus to around 1500-1800 mhz and want the cooling to be able to handle the temps that are going to be pushed.

I also do see your point on the Black ICE GTX 480's (based on the 360 tests that Martin did) Since the 360 is slowly scaling up with each 400rpm increase going from 1000-1400 by 58, then another 61 with the next increase to 1800, then 63 with the next increase to 2200 rpms. However the Alphacool Nexxxos UT60 (while each increase in RPM results in a slightly lower increase in heat dissipated) is a very close competitor. 1000-1400 increase of 59, 1400-1800 increase of 58, 1800-2200 increase of 57. While the heat dissipation numbers are going up by less and less, the prior numbers (600 and 1000RPM) were MUCH higher than the GTX 360. Thus, the Alphacool top end MIGHT not be as high as the GTX 360, however it has a much better range from low to high rpms in my opinion. Coincidently, It's also roughly $30 (USD) cheaper than the Black ICE when it comes to the 480's. I'm not so much concerned with that last part, just worth mentioning.

I also did notice that with a 325 W of dissipation at 2200 rpms w/ the 360, it would be at about 435w @ 10c Delta w/ 2200 rpm fans. So lets assume at it's current rate, that if i went full force with just the 4200rpm Gentle Typhoons that it would only go up to about....lets say an even 550w of dissipation (lower than the math actually suggests of course). Based on that 2x 480's would be at about 1100w of dissipation @ a 10c delta. Now...I know that adding a 3rd Rad will actually only give it about a 300w of dissipation increase since I have discovered that at 3 radiators diminishing returns starts to actually affect the loop by a considerate amount. So we'll say 1400w of of dissipation @ 10c @ 4200RPM. Here's where I run into trouble. How do I figure out the ~5c delta weirdsmiley.gif

Also...by learning more about this stuff, I've managed to make this more confusing on myself.

Side note: It seems that using compression fittings lowers my delta even further? I'm so confused haha.
Edited by Flex85 - 4/16/12 at 3:27pm
post #13 of 21
If your loop handles 435w @ 10C delta, you'd want to double the radiator to get that for 435w @ 5C delta. So, if a single 480 held a 10C on your loop, then two would take it to 5C. Another way to look at it, since two radiators would be ~1100w at 10C (by your math, I'm not going to look it up tongue.gif), then those same two would do 550w @ 5C, or 225w @ 2.5C (or 2200w @ 20C, etc). As for the single versus dual loop, like I said, in your situation I don't know that I'd go with a single for sure, there's definitely merits to a dual, but you wouldn't need anything as serious as an MD-30, an MD-R20 would do just fine, and two pumps in the same loop actually isn't all that bad, though I don't like to run them one right after another.

With your radiator choices, if you plan on running less than full speed fairly often, I agree, the GTX series may not be your best choice, I just wasn't sure what you planned on doing. If you did go with the single loop, there's really no difference between your two setups, as the pump is the only thing that changed position. On compression fittings, that's not really true... They have virtually no difference on your temperatures, but if you had enough of them and they had small enough ID's, it would be a small amount of restriction, raising your temps. I think it's something ridiculous like 20 fittings for .1C, Martin has a good comparison with angled fittings that shows the same thing. The same is true with barbs, if you had a barb that was smaller inside than average, it would slightly increase the restriction, but it's basically not enough to worry about.
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post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
I mentioned trying to put this in a custom case/desk instead of a TX-10. Now that I've narrowed it down to 4 480's in total, I believe it to be more feasible to do so. Thought I'd drop it in here just to see what you thought about it. Unless you use Sketchup, you'll only be able to see the thumbnail of it here.
post #15 of 21
Do it, but those fans man, get 1400rpm fans or risk death by noise
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post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
@ douglatins: Haha, well the Gentle typhoons are made to be much quieter than the normal fans at that speed. I'm considering going with the 4200rpm instead of the 5400 rpm, but since they're both the same price, it's basically just whatever's available at the time.

@ bakageta: Thanks again for the information. The answer was so simple that after reading it, it made me feel like I must've been having a derp moment. I'm probably going to just run 3 cards for the time being instead of 4, and building another system later on built specifically around the premise of editing like an SR-2 board w/ a Quadro card instead. Something more geared towards just editing. 3 680's will suffice until I can put together a system with a Quadro. Since only running 3 cards, I'm pretty sure a 3x480 will get me close to ~2.5c.
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
@Cathleen: I would agree with you on that idea. I was mainly trying to ascertain whether it would be beneficial to run 3-4 radiators in the same series or if it did in fact have a large amount of diminishing returns. However through the discussion and links obtained (Thank you Krahe and bakageta for your helpful information), not only was I more easily able to understand how to run my loops, but also came across a lot of good data as far as what parts would be best to use.

Originally I had a LOT of EK's products on my shopping list, but now have a completely different list. The only thing left as far as EK is concerned is the motherboard block since Ram blocks are mainly just for looks, and most often times end up heating your ram up further than where they already were (dependant on how the loop is setup, since most people take the loop to their CPU block first). It seems the only data that I haven't come across is the deltas and such for the motherboard blocks. However, without any knowledge on them, I decided to go with what looks to be like the least restrictive block which also happens to be a better color in my opinion (not a fan of the black/stainless look when nothing else is stainless). The EK Motherboard block, just based off the dimensions alone, seem to have less restriction due to the larger surface area of the block coolers (allowing for more space internally for the water flow). As of now, I'll be working on the desk and slowly getting parts in for this build.

After the statistics that I've found so far, my new hardware list:


CPU Loop
  • DT 5noz CPU Block
  • EK-FB RE4 (Mofset/SB Blocks)
  • 1x Alphacool NexXxos UT60 Quad (480) Radiator
  • 1x EK Res X2 250 Advanced Resevoir
  • 1x Koolance PMP-450S @ 24v


GPU Loop
  • 3-4x EVGA Hydro Copper GTX680 Water Block (w/ Backplate)
  • 3x Alphacool NexXxos UT60 Quad (480) Radiator
  • 1x EK Res X2 250 Advanced Resevoir
  • 2x Koolance PMP-450S @ 24v in series

Also, finished the rough draft of the upcoming case. View 1 View 2 View 3 View 4 View 5

EDIT: Finished Deciding on the GPU Loop Pump setup, and added a few pictures of the case.
Edited by Flex85 - 4/19/12 at 1:46am
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex85 View Post

@Cathleen: I would agree with you on that idea. I was mainly trying to ascertain whether it would be beneficial to run 3-4 radiators in the same series or if it did in fact have a large amount of diminishing returns. However through the discussion and links obtained (Thank you Krahe and bakageta for your helpful information), not only was I more easily able to understand how to run my loops, but also came across a lot of good data as far as what parts would be best to use.

Originally I had a LOT of EK's products on my shopping list, but now have a completely different list. The only thing left as far as EK is concerned is the motherboard block since Ram blocks are mainly just for looks, and most often times end up heating your ram up further than where they already were (dependant on how the loop is setup, since most people take the loop to their CPU block first). It seems the only data that I haven't come across is the deltas and such for the motherboard blocks. However, without any knowledge on them, I decided to go with what looks to be like the least restrictive block which also happens to be a better color in my opinion (not a fan of the black/stainless look when nothing else is stainless). The EK Motherboard block, just based off the dimensions alone, seem to have less restriction due to the larger surface area of the block coolers (allowing for more space internally for the water flow). As of now, I'll be working on the desk and slowly getting parts in for this build.

After the statistics that I've found so far, my new hardware list:


CPU Loop
  • DT 5noz CPU Block
  • EK-FB RE4 (Mofset/SB Blocks)
  • 1x Alphacool NexXxos UT60 Quad (480) Radiator
  • 1x EK Res X2 250 Advanced Resevoir
  • 1x Koolance PMP-450S @ 24v


GPU Loop
  • 3-4x EVGA Hydro Copper GTX680 Water Block (w/ Backplate)
  • 3x Alphacool NexXxos UT60 Quad (480) Radiator
  • 1x EK Res X2 250 Advanced Resevoir
  • 2x Koolance PMP-450S @ 24v in series

Also, finished the rough draft of the upcoming case. View 1 View 2 View 3 View 4

EDIT: Finished Deciding on the GPU Loop Pump setup, and added a few pictures of the case.

2 quads are enough
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post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
with 3 cards, 2 quads would put me at about ~3c before overclocking. With 3 quads it's at about ~2c, and that's if I'm running Parallel. If I want to run series instead, I'm looking at ~3.5c with 2, ~2.7c with 3 quads. This is all before overclocking. So to safely (I say safely because I do NOT want to go above) maintain ~5c, 3 Quads would be better, not to mention able to handle a 4th card should I decide to add it in later on. I would love to do a ~2.5c system, but that would in fact be overkill and a waste of money to add a 4th quad to the mix seeing as how, at times, I will be running at ~1.5c when only 1 card is being used.
post #20 of 21
4 Quads IMO. Shows the world you mean bizness! Nothing can describe the feeling of 16 fans going *whoosh* on your face when testing them out for the first time thumb.gif
    
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