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[Nordic] Ivy Bridge gets 95W TDP, worse overclocker than Sandy Bridge - Page 14

post #131 of 287
I'm pretty much with jtom as well - things have been slowing down a bit, at least in terms of my interest as well.

But I also stopped following improvements with every release, opting to go back to the "new every two" - waiting for two refreshes before I really read into something as a potential upgrade. My wallet appreciates this thinking as well.

I only went a couple of pages back, but has anyone really ever pointed out definitive proof that running a chip at 90°C is as bad as everyone makes it out to be? My GPUs all run in that range and they're fine - and have continued to be fine for many years, never deviating from their expected operational temperature. I know that's casting a wide net and a general assumption that would get me murdered in some circles, but I DO care about keeping temps down - I just think it's a little overkill for folks to totally freak out about temps when they hit 90+.

I will admit right now, I'm a bit of an Intel sadist. I've grown up on AMD, I know what they can do, I know what products work best from them, and I, for a time, didn't buy Intel (I thought they were thinking with their marketing department, not their engineers) - but now that I work at a job where I have 90% of the say in new PC purchases, and when I like throwing my boss for a loop ("you specced Intel for this build? Are you feeling ok?") I get Intel. Why sadistic? I like taking them, throwing Prime95 at them, and running them with the CPU fan blocked.

devil.gif

I know, I'm evil - but I also run testing apps, and I had a Core i5 system on the bench for 24 hours running Prime95 and the CPU fan blocked (so it spun really gud!) and came back to it, stock clock, no autothrottling, and Prime hadn't failed.

Who are we as end users to dictate how hot a chip is to run when for the most part, the people who are interested in this kind of thing (overclocking, monitoring temps, etc) almost never hang on to a system long enough to actually find out if the chip will survive or not?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here - not trying to be snide about it, just something I consider.

The fact that the Intel chip did that for 24 hours and Prime never wavered, well, I do consider Intel purchases more often now.
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post #132 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faketetrabyte View Post

I'm pretty much with jtom as well - things have been slowing down a bit, at least in terms of my interest as well.
But I also stopped following improvements with every release, opting to go back to the "new every two" - waiting for two refreshes before I really read into something as a potential upgrade. My wallet appreciates this thinking as well.
I only went a couple of pages back, but has anyone really ever pointed out definitive proof that running a chip at 90°C is as bad as everyone makes it out to be? My GPUs all run in that range and they're fine - and have continued to be fine for many years, never deviating from their expected operational temperature. I know that's casting a wide net and a general assumption that would get me murdered in some circles, but I DO care about keeping temps down - I just think it's a little overkill for folks to totally freak out about temps when they hit 90+.
I will admit right now, I'm a bit of an Intel sadist. I've grown up on AMD, I know what they can do, I know what products work best from them, and I, for a time, didn't buy Intel (I thought they were thinking with their marketing department, not their engineers) - but now that I work at a job where I have 90% of the say in new PC purchases, and when I like throwing my boss for a loop ("you specced Intel for this build? Are you feeling ok?") I get Intel. Why sadistic? I like taking them, throwing Prime95 at them, and running them with the CPU fan blocked.
devil.gif
I know, I'm evil - but I also run testing apps, and I had a Core i5 system on the bench for 24 hours running Prime95 and the CPU fan blocked (so it spun really gud!) and came back to it, stock clock, no autothrottling, and Prime hadn't failed.
Who are we as end users to dictate how hot a chip is to run when for the most part, the people who are interested in this kind of thing (overclocking, monitoring temps, etc) almost never hang on to a system long enough to actually find out if the chip will survive or not?
I'm just playing devil's advocate here - not trying to be snide about it, just something I consider.
The fact that the Intel chip did that for 24 hours and Prime never wavered, well, I do consider Intel purchases more often now.

Apples to Oranges.
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post #133 of 287
Yup, waiting for Haswell or Broadwell. No Ivy Bridge for me.
Edited by MethosTR - 4/14/12 at 11:27pm
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post #134 of 287
I dont get it. When intel went from 90nm to 45nm the TDP decreased. When intel went from 45nm to 32nm the TDP decreased.

So why Hasnt the TDP decreased this time?? What is different to the other die shrinks?
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post #135 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinny1 View Post

I dont get it. When intel went from 90nm to 45nm the TDP decreased. When intel went from 45nm to 32nm the TDP decreased.
So why Hasnt the TDP decreased this time?? What is different to the other die shrinks?

Your getting to the point where it's already so small it doesn't really matter. They need to optimize the processor better instead of shrinking the die more and more. I suspect these processors will get new steppings about 5-6 months after release that will drastically improve TDP.
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post #136 of 287
I think people just like to see high numbers after sandy, just because it won't clock as high means nothing. Ivy at 4.6 will probably perform on par with a 5ghz sandy.
post #137 of 287
All this talk about Ivy's higher IPC do not make them a viable option.

Suppose that you're lucky and you can get away with an Ivy at 4.5GHZ but can't push it anymore. And let's say it matches the performance of a SB @ 4.8GHZ.

All things being the same, I'd take the SB. Why? The SB is going to run cooler, and I probably can OC it beyond 4.8GHZ for the same amount of effort it takes to get the 95W TDP Ivy to 4.5GHZ.

So in the end, the SB has a higher ceiling in terms of overclocking, outperforming the Ivy even with its improved IPC.

Of course, Ivy brings other enhancements, but I don't think extra ram speed or PCI-E 3.0 or IGPU matters for most people... might as well get a cheap SB and wait until Ivy matures.
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post #138 of 287
Looks like ill be keeping my 2500k a bit longer smile.gif
     
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post #139 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faketetrabyte View Post

I'm pretty much with jtom as well - things have been slowing down a bit, at least in terms of my interest as well.
But I also stopped following improvements with every release, opting to go back to the "new every two" - waiting for two refreshes before I really read into something as a potential upgrade. My wallet appreciates this thinking as well.
I only went a couple of pages back, but has anyone really ever pointed out definitive proof that running a chip at 90°C is as bad as everyone makes it out to be? My GPUs all run in that range and they're fine - and have continued to be fine for many years, never deviating from their expected operational temperature. I know that's casting a wide net and a general assumption that would get me murdered in some circles, but I DO care about keeping temps down - I just think it's a little overkill for folks to totally freak out about temps when they hit 90+.
I will admit right now, I'm a bit of an Intel sadist. I've grown up on AMD, I know what they can do, I know what products work best from them, and I, for a time, didn't buy Intel (I thought they were thinking with their marketing department, not their engineers) - but now that I work at a job where I have 90% of the say in new PC purchases, and when I like throwing my boss for a loop ("you specced Intel for this build? Are you feeling ok?") I get Intel. Why sadistic? I like taking them, throwing Prime95 at them, and running them with the CPU fan blocked.
devil.gif
I know, I'm evil - but I also run testing apps, and I had a Core i5 system on the bench for 24 hours running Prime95 and the CPU fan blocked (so it spun really gud!) and came back to it, stock clock, no autothrottling, and Prime hadn't failed.
Who are we as end users to dictate how hot a chip is to run when for the most part, the people who are interested in this kind of thing (overclocking, monitoring temps, etc) almost never hang on to a system long enough to actually find out if the chip will survive or not?
I'm just playing devil's advocate here - not trying to be snide about it, just something I consider.
The fact that the Intel chip did that for 24 hours and Prime never wavered, well, I do consider Intel purchases more often now.

Yeah go home and buy a Phenom II X6, run it at 90 degrees for a day and see what happens...
post #140 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klinkey View Post

Yeah go home and buy a Phenom II X6, run it at 90 degrees for a day and see what happens...

Yeah... 90c means less OC headroom, and needing more cooling to get the job done. That means possibly more elaborate HSF or WC or even more case fans or bigger cases, which some people don't want to bother with.

90c might not bug you, but for other people, they want to be able to run things cool and quietly without having to hassle with WC.
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