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Koolance TMS-205 vs Aquaero 5 LT - Differences and/or Options - Page 2

post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Frank,
Thanks for all the detail. It's comforting to see you can run that many GT's off a single header on the main unit. There is no doubt its good looking and undeniably cool. But part of me just wants to reach out and adjust it manually sometimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav2000 View Post

I use a Alphacool heatmaster I, which I bought for a fraction of the cost of all the other Water cooling speciality devices listed above.
Basically I use it to run the following:
Channel 1. MCP 355
Channel 2. 3 X GT 1850
Channel 3. 2 X GT 1850
Channel 4. 1 X80 mm fan to keep the pump and controller board cool
Flow meter
Temperature meter
All of this can then be adjusted into various configurations depending on what you need. For eg.
Channel 1,2,3 run on one config, with the temp meter. The high the temp, the higher the fan speeds.
Channel 4 runs of the onboard temp meter, which kind of kicks up the fan at board temp of 40 degrees.
I still have two more configs to use IF i want to.

Sounds like its worth taking a look into. I had been leaning towards AlphaCool radiators also based on some reviews. I'll check out the II version with the review link below.
post #12 of 26
Late to the party, but I'll echo Frank's response, the Aquaero 5 is amazing if you like to know everything that is going on with your system and be able to have very fine control over noise vs. performance.

I have the XT but only because I am a part time writer for a review site and that is what they sent me to review. I would have gone for the pro version if I was paying since, like Frank, I do 99% of it from the software.

700

Other than always being silent since it scales based on water temp load not on CPU load I view this as a great way to see if my cooling loop is working as expected. See the air / water and water / water deltas on the bottom under moderate load. This shows me I have plenty of cooling for my set up. Further using dual MCP-35x's in serial I can have the Aquareo 5 ramp my pump power and noise with the load.

The ONLY thing I used the front buttons for is to pick the data set for the graphs displayed on the front screen. For some reason you cannot do that from the software. Even if I could program the soft touch keys I have no idea what I would have them do since the software is so robust.

My 2cents.gif
 
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post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the insight RatDog. I've been spending some time in the aqua computer forums, and feel like I'm starting to understand the product a little better. And yes, sounds mighty powerful. Couple of questions for you:

1) Have you used 'profiles' for anything yet on your setup?
2) I read you can have 2 aquaero's on same system, but i'm still unsure if they could read sensors attached from the other aquaero. Do you have two...or do you know for sure?
post #14 of 26
I have used profiles but only to export my current config so I can reload it into a new build. Since the software is still considered "beta" they come out with new releases every 3 - 4 months and when you upgrade and flash your firmware it wipes your config. So I save it off, upgrade, flash firmware, reload and all my custom screens and settings are there. Given how well you can set up variables with the software I can't figure out any other reason to use profiles. I do not need a gaming vs. surfing profile for example, the system just ramps my pumps and fans if the water starts getting hotter in a perfectly linear fashion. I don't run LED's off my Aquaero 5 so maybe that is the benefit or for sharing a config with a friend that likes your custom graphs. 15

I know Shoggy listed something about the ability to link two Aquaero 5's through the aquabus or something but if memory serves, it was going to be a future software release so I am not sure if you can do that, yet. I only have one and it has more than enough sensors for my setup. I can plug in 8 physical sensors, pull 4 more from software such as open hardware, and create another four virtual. If you need more you can link a power adjust for two more.

I have 16 fans, 4 physical temp sensors, and dual pumps. Other than water coming into the rads, water leaving the rads, case ambient, and room ambient I am not sure what else I would measure. I pull CPU, GPU, and Mobo from software but have enough physical sensor ports to actually put sensors on those if I want.

I think you would have to be rocking one heck of a rig to require two of these but I could possibly see a second Aquareo 5 LT as a slave unit if you needed a ton more sensors. You would have to check with Shoggy (on this forum) to see if you can do that yet.


Oh and one more thing, the new heatsink on the fan amp's works exceptional so unless you are watercooling crazy or are really maxing out the load don't waste your money on the water block for the fan amps. Mine never get above ~50C on air, passive cooling, which is 45C from the thermal limiter.

I also noticed you listed the LT in your post topic, that is the one without heatsinks, a display, or bay mounting hardware. You might want to look at the pro version.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
 
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post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatDog View Post



Oh and one more thing, the new heatsink on the fan amp's works exceptional so unless you are watercooling crazy or are really maxing out the load don't waste your money on the water block for the fan amps. Mine never get above ~50C on air, passive cooling, which is 45C from the thermal limiter.


Let me know if you have any other questions.

I've got 2 questions.

I am in the process of getting together parts for my new build and the watercooling setup I will be doing. I will be using an Aquaero 5 Pro with the following components: Swiftech MCP655 pump, Flow sensor "high flow" G1/4 for aquaero, Temperature sensor inline G1/4 for aquaero, and 11 fans total (6 on the radiator, 5 in the case). I want to be able to connect all of these to the Aquaero 5 to be able to control the case fans, radiator fans, the pump speed, and to see the flow rate and temperature of the coolant.

Power usage of the pump - 12V, 2 amps
Power usage of the fans - 12V, 0.083 amps (total amps for all 11 fans=0.913 amps)

I would like to put the pump on channel 1, 6 fans on channel 2, 4 fans on channel 3, and 1 fan on channel 4.

My 2 questions are this.

1 - Is the "Connection cable for Laing DDC pumps for poweradjust 2 and aquaero 5" what I need to connect the MCP655 pump to the Aquaero? It is Product No. 53053
2 - On the websites I see selling this cable, it says "Adaptor cable for connection of a Laing DDC pump to the power output of the poweradjust USB or a powerbooster-optimized aquaero." But I thought that if I was going to buy the waterblock for it to be able to increase the power output of the 4 channels, that would be sufficient. So if I install the waterblock on the Aquaero 5, can I connect the MCP655 with that connection cable to channel 1 and it will work without damaging the Aquaero or the pump?

Edit - Also, the Aquaero tells you what the temp of its fan amps are?
Edited by Warrior1986 - 4/25/12 at 9:43am
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post #16 of 26
1) Yes, that cable would let you connect a MCP655 or MCP355 pump to a standard 3-pin fan header like on the Aquareo or power adjust 2.
2) You can use the fan amps on the Aquaero 5 to vary the power on the MCP655 but you pretty much max what it can handle, on air, with this on a single channel if you under volt it to much. The whole fan amp section can handle 5amps max across all four channels but starts throttling if the amps hit 95C. If you put the amps under water then you should be ok to run that MCP655 (D5) pump and around 30 AP-15's depending on how much you under volt them.

Yes the Aquasuite software gives you fan amp temps

346

Martin did a really nice review and has the tools to show the power loading here

You can read my review here but Martins is much more technical.
 
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post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatDog View Post

2) You can use the fan amps on the Aquaero 5 to vary the power on the MCP655 but you pretty much max what it can handle, on air, with this on a single channel if you under volt it to much. The whole fan amp section can handle 5amps max across all four channels but starts throttling if the amps hit 95C. If you put the amps under water then you should be ok to run that MCP655 (D5) pump and around 30 AP-15's depending on how much you under volt them.

I'm a little confused by what you wrote, but it's been a long day so bear with me.

you pretty much max what it can handle, on air, with this on a single channel if you under volt it to much

I don't know what you mean by this. You mean that the heatsink would NOT be needed if I undervolted the pumps and fans?

The whole fan amp section can handle 5amps max across all four channels but starts throttling if the amps hit 95C

I see in the PDF manual on page 9 - http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/aquaero_5_eng.pdf - that each channel's max current is 1.65 amps. So this is not correct?

If you put the amps under water then you should be ok to run that MCP655 (D5) pump and around 30 AP-15's depending on how much you under volt them.

In my setup then with the pump and 11 fans, with the waterblock installed I should be able to run everything at regular voltage. Not that I will though as I will be undervolting most of the fans, but probably not the pump.

I read Martin's review, and it looks like I should install the pump on channel 4, rather than 1, because it has PWM. Does this mean I can just buy the regular D5 pump, rather than the one that has the speed control know on the back?
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post #18 of 26
I think you are missing a few basics on how electricity works and what causes heat. Let me try and help you a bit.

First, each channel can handle up to 1.65A but all four combined have a max of 5A total because they share the load and dynamically adjust to keep thermals under wraps. As far as heat goes, you do not generate that much heat from amps if you are running everything a 100% however when you throttle down from 12V to say 8v you use resistance and the extra 4V is given up as heat (oversimplified but you get the point). Therefore the unit can handle a much higher load if everything is at 100% vs everything at 50%.

So my comment is if you plan on hooking your D5 pump to one of the channels and run it at 50% it will generate a ton of heat because you are near the maximum for that channel in amps. Because that channel is generating so much heat on the air heatsink it would limit how many more devices you could place on the other three channels and run at less than 100%.

Therefore if you want to place your D5 on one of the channels and 11 fans (assuming AP-15's?) you would be wise to use the water block so you could run the pump and fans at less than 100% when the load on the loop is low and allow the Aquareo 5 ramp the speed back up to 100% as the thermal load on your loop increases. This is the reason you would want a high end device like this. Aqua Computers came up with the poweradjust 2 module specifically for cases like yours to offload the thermals and voltage limitations from the Aquaero 5 onto a slave devices. As Martin points out this is not required for a single D5 but it does take some strain off the main device.

The D5 pump you are planning on using is not PWM controlled so it does not matter which channel you use. I am using MCP-35x pumps which ARE PWM controlled so I have the control lines plugged into channel 4 so I put no thermal load on the Aquaero 5.

If you are planning on leaving the pump at a constant speed, a better solution would be to just buy the variable D5, manually set it to a speed that balances noise with performance (3 or 4 probably) and just connect the RPM signal to one of the Aquaero 5 channels so you can monitor the speed to make sure it is running but not put the thermal or amp load on the Aquaero 5. If you really want your pump to ramp up and down with thermal load, don't get the D5, get the MCP-35x with PWM control and use channel 4 to control the speed also without loading up the Aquaero 5.

If you do not understand the difference between PWM and undervolting a device you should probably read this.

Hope that clears it up for you.
 
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post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank anderson View Post

This is fine if you only care about the temps of your GPU / CPU core, however this does not allow you to fine tune your fan RPM's, pump's power (this can be easily bypassed with some voltage regulators if you know how to do it, $2 for a 12v to 7v converter from your local electronic supply store), actual flow in real time, or see the actual inline temperature of your liquid that is flowing through your tubings, and errrr let's not forget the "bling" factor that some of us do actually care about. biggrin.gif
2nd this comment, I have a Aquaero XT and a friend of mine has the Koolance 200 I think, difference is night and day..
You can also customize your Aqua suite menu which is +1... Customize I mean put things in any place, way, shape, numbers and charts.. Below is an example to get your saliva flowing..
aquasuite_04172012.jpg
Apart from what's stated above, I'll add ease of use.. I just find that the Aquaero simpler to use, tho not as simple as for you can just hop in and have everything up and running in minutes. I like to think of myself as "tech savvy", even after that, it still took me 3 hours to get everything up and running with the help of shoggy (he's the AC vendor rep) and another user from this forum that had a Aquaero himself.
Although my loops are more complex than most, dual loops with 4x D5, Aquaero XT and 6x PA2, 2x flow sensor, 4x inline temp sensors, the complexity at the start was just "wth did I get myself into this time"... oh well, no turning back now... in the end, I am happy with my choice and I'd would never turn back.. thumb.gif
The last thing I'll add is that the past 6 months or so that I have owned my Aquaero setup, is that during that period, they have released at least 6 updates for their softwares, this company shows a true track record of updating and fixing something that is either broken, or just improve on that.. This is noteworthy.. smile.gif

I have the TMS-205 and Expansion board for my system. For me it has been a joy and given me piece of mind to be able to monitor my temps and when needed control my pump speeds. I currently do not have my fans connected to it, they are on a separate fan controller and I do not have the remote shutdown feature set up. I have two D5 pumps on it, 9 temp probes configured including a flow meter, and 3 coolant temp sensors. So far for me it has been stable with no issues and give me all of the info on my flow and temps in one nice dashboard display. However with that said I am intrigued with the fan configurable profiles and curves you can set withe Aquaero and I agree the software and hw solution and options it offers are far above what the TMS-205 offers in options and flexibility. It does look like you do get what you pay for. With all that said I would like to try the Aquaero. Can someone give me a summary of the parts I would need to support the following ?

11 Fans, (Do they have to be PWM fans ?)
2 D5 Pumps
3 coolant temp sensors (Aquaeros)
1 flow meter (assume I may have to buy Aquaero's)
10 temp gauges

Please tell me if there are any other hidden pieces I may need. I need to price all of that up. Thank you.

Love this thread.
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Kick_Ass
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Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
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post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
I also ended up getting the AQ5 after starting this thread. You should definitely order it from someone OTHER THAN Aquacomputer. Buts as far as what items you need, here are my suggestions. With just 11 fans, I would use the onboard channels to power these. The pumps would do better with the PowerAdjust2's. The AQ5 comes with 5 temp probes, so you will need to purchase 5 more. You need:

- 1x Aquaero 5: If I could start over again, I would probably skip the XT version, and get either the Pro or the LT. I've got one XT and one LT. There really isn't anything I need or want to do with the touchscreen buttons and/or the remote. The LT is dirt cheap compared to the XT and it does everything the XT does.

- 2x PowerAdjust2's: Run your pumps off of these, and connect them to the Aquaero (not USB). You will need a molex connection to power it. You can either mount these in your case somewhere...or Aquacomputer also sells a 5.25 bay accessory to mount them.

- You'll need to convert the molex power connections on your pumps to a fan header. You can either make these yourself...or purchase 2x of the Aquacomputer cables to do this.

- 5x temp probes (it already comes with 5)

- 1x flow meter.

- Depending on which flow meter you choose...you may or may not need a connection cable for it. The old version does not come with a cable, and you would need to purchase one. However, the newer models connect via the aquabus, and have the cable included.

-3x coolant temp sensors (nothing else needed for these)


I would suggest the waterblock for the AQ5 if you are already water cooling. And I think the auto-shutdown cable is worthwhile for peace of mind. Good luck! I'm still getting mine setup. Lots of work still to go.
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