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post #21 of 29
NTFS-3G replaced the original driver, it's why it comes shipped with the kernel as a FUSE driver. Since the FUSE variant does so well, they basically dropped the original in-kernel stuff.
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post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

NTFS-3G replaced the original driver, it's why it comes shipped with the kernel as a FUSE driver. Since the FUSE variant does so well, they basically dropped the original in-kernel stuff.
You're being far too generalised there: what you say is true for Ubuntu, but not all distros.

Also you can't ship a kernel with a FUSE driver as FUSE runs outside of the kernel. In fact that's the whole point of FUSE and even stated in it's name (Filesystem in Userspace)
post #23 of 29
There's some kind of kernel element though, it's in the kernel config (I'm pretty sure!)
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post #24 of 29
Yeah, FUSE itself is a kernel module. However that then just acts an interface for running the file systems in user space. So that the FUSE drivers (ntfs-3g in this instance) can swap data between user space memory and kernel space memory. It almost becomes a little bit hybrid kernel-esk in design.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

You're being far too generalised there: what you say is true for Ubuntu, but not all distros.
Also you can't ship a kernel with a FUSE driver as FUSE runs outside of the kernel. In fact that's the whole point of FUSE and even stated in it's name (Filesystem in Userspace)

Every distro I have ever used, with a modern kernel, comes with the FUSE version of NTFS set up. In fact, the default kernel config option is to not build to original NTFS module. At least, when I download a kernel from kernel.org and run default configure it makes NTFS support through FUSE the default option now. It hasn't actually replaced it, but as far as a NTFS read/write solutions are concerned it has replaced the original kernel module function and use by the majority of the linux crowd.

You need to learn to read things as generalizations as well, because I don't always mean something as exact.
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post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post


Every distro I have ever used, with a modern kernel, comes with the FUSE version of NTFS set up. In fact, the default kernel config option is to not build to original NTFS module. At least, when I download a kernel from kernel.org and run default configure it makes NTFS support through FUSE the default option now. It hasn't actually replaced it, but as far as a NTFS read/write solutions are concerned it has replaced the original kernel module function and use by the majority of the linux crowd.

You need to learn to read things as generalizations as well, because I don't always mean something as exact.

I know you were making generalisations and I specifically said that it wasn't really a fair generalisation as the exceptions are as common as the rule.

While your point is true for most desktop distros, it's not the case for Linux across the board: Arch doesn't, CentOS doesn't, Debian didn't when I last checked. And the fact that CentOS is one of the OSs this guy is using, I felt the exceptions were relevant enough to point out.
post #27 of 29
You 2 have done it again, lol.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I know you were making generalisations and I specifically said that it wasn't really a fair generalisation as the exceptions are as common as the rule.
While your point is true for most desktop distros, it's not the case for Linux across the board: Arch doesn't, CentOS doesn't, Debian didn't when I last checked. And the fact that CentOS is one of the OSs this guy is using, I felt the exceptions were relevant enough to point out.

Debian has for a LONG time, i've ran debian for 6+ years.

The distros I've found that FUSE comes with are:

Gentoo
Debian/Ubuntu (all spinoffs)
SUSE (recently, at least within a year)
Fedora/RH (correction: RH might not, I've really only played with Fedora but I'm guessing the wiki's still "support" it over the native option)


Arch doesn't come with NTFS-3G generally because it's a minimal system like a net install, which so is Slackware. I haven't tried CentOS but maybe I'll go check. I've had all of those mount my NTFS drives off a fresh install, with NTFS-3G. The big linux players IMO count as the majority. If they start shipping with it, I consider it more or less accepted as the new default by the community.

[edit]I'm sure Mandrake, Mandrivia, and the others ship with it as well. heck, anything that ships with a GUI desktop I would almost guarantee comes with NTFS-3G support. Also, the kernel NTFS support has been stopped from what I remember. They no longer develop it because NTFS-3G is a better solution ATM.

http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/NTFS
Code:
As of CentOS 5.4 (kernel 2.6.18-164 or newer), the fuse kernel module is included in the kernel itself.Therefore, dkms and dkms-fuse are no longer required. If 
you have previously installed dkms-fuse, please uninstall it by a yum remove dkms-fuse command. Please note that CentOS-4 users need those 2 packages. 

I believe that follows most distros, so *** are you talking about. Why do you do this? I know below it shows to get it, so I assume it doesn't come with it. However I'm assuming they don't enable natural NTFS support so they still push the user to download the NTFS-3G as the "main" solution. I stick by saying CentOS pushes NTFS-3G. This is what I mean, it's the accepted solution all around.

I'll go find it but I know it says development has been delayed or slowed down due to NTFS-3G.

[edit2] Heck, find me R/W for NTFS without FUSE and have it work in the later kernels perfectly. I don't even think we have R/W without FUSE. So a full implementation doesn't exist outside of that solution. I can't find anything without NTFS-3G and haven't for a long time.

[additional info added at random]
http://wiki.debian.org/NTFS (talks about NTFS with only Write, which is a problem for to ever become the "accepted" method)
http://forum.soft32.com/linux/NTFS-drivers-NTFS-NTFS-3G-NTFS-FUSE-ftopict474036.html
Code:
NTFS-3G is still not part of the kernel, it's a 3rd party driver that depends
on the FUSE module in the kernel. Many distributions has chosen to use NTFS-3G
instead of the one in the kernel, as the later one may corrupt the ntfs file
system. 

I still believe that holds true, it has terrible problems with corruption upon writing. Who wants that!?

I actually can't find a distro wiki that doesn't use NTFS-3G, what does that tell you? If the people who write the distro wiki don't believe in putting in the other options as a good solution, why? Because nobody uses it, as it's a piss poor half implementation of support for NTFS. It has been like that for YEARS, learn it.
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/19/12 at 10:29am
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post #29 of 29
Oh for gods sake why are you arguing with me when all I'm saying is some distros don't ship ntfs-3g in the default install:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I know you were making generalisations and I specifically said that it wasn't really a fair generalisation as the exceptions are as common as the rule.
While your point is true for most desktop distros, it's not the case for Linux across the board: Arch doesn't, CentOS doesn't, Debian didn't when I last checked. And the fact that CentOS is one of the OSs this guy is using, I felt the exceptions were relevant enough to point out.

If you dropped this attitude problem of yours you'd see that you're basically arguing the same point.

However I appreciate you explaining to me how the kernel NTFS driver works after I'd already posted it on here myself. Kudos for reiterating other peoples comments and making them sound as if the original commentator was wrong. rolleyes.gif

Anyway, this is all moot as he's now going to run virtual machines so shouldn't need ntfs-3g anyway
Edited by Plan9 - 4/20/12 at 12:42am
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