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watercooling obsolete? - Page 7

post #61 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat79 View Post

To be fair, he was jumped on first and for no good reason. He asked a perfectly valid question imo and had no bad attitude or language until that post responding to someone that had called him a troll for apparently no reason. Not saying he should have responded in that manner, but it wasn't unwarranted either.
On the topic. With the continuous shrinking of the die space, it is going to start to become less of boon to use water over air due to the consequent lack of area to dissipate the heat. As die space shrinks so does the ability to transfer the heat efficiently. It doesn't matter if it only puts out half the heat, if it is more densely packed within a smaller area, it is going to become harder and harder to rid the heat any faster than what an air cooler could. They may find a way around this, like going without the IHS once again, like the old AMD chips used to be. They may come up with something completely new. But if not, there will come a point when water will be of no use when compared to air cooling and it is already showing in the 22nm parts. Not saying it is useless, but it is sharply starting to show diminishing returns already. I cannot say what is going to happen, it may be an easy fix/workaround for this problem, but until then his question is perfectly valid. As for the question itself, I cannot give an honest answer as I have no idea how they plan on addressing the problem in the future. For now, water is still a boon though and worth it if you want to put in the time/money.

This below may be the answer for both air and water cooling improvements via blocks/heatsinks whenever it is released on a mass scale:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1243271/th-25-increase-in-heat-dissipation-by-new-copper-compound

It should help compensate for these die shrinks happening wink.gif

or we could all just go buy diamond heatsinks and call it a day.
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post #62 of 80
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i run on low so i can play at 90 fps+
    
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post #63 of 80
wait, what?! no no no.. water cooling is in the top tier of cooling the components (mainstream that is). the reasons i can see why people thinks the way like you TS is that they have a limited budget, afraid to try new things, and doesnt really understand what water cooling is..

so again, no, water cooling is not and will not become obsolete..
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post #64 of 80
^That is a nice find iinversion. It may take several small improvements/innovations to overcome the problem or one big find, who knows. I'm sure they are already working out something, as I am sure they are well aware that they are fast approaching a pretty serious issue.
post #65 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishflab View Post

i run on low so i can play at 90 fps+

Ah makes sense for your monitor, I didn't see that it was a 120Hz monitor before.
    
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post #66 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marduk666 View Post

it isnt obsolete if it was no one would buy it . and parts for WC would be hard to find.

you probably dont notice it america but in AUS there is limited variety when it comes to watercooling. it is pretty pricey as well suggesting the market for it is small. a $50 air cooler is a lot more difficult and expensive to manufacture than a waterblock. why is that waterblocks cost the same price?

watercooling is good at cooling although it is costly and time consuming, im just not sure whether such levels of cooling will be required in the future. heatpipe air coolers are water coolers technically (there is a working fluid inside the heatpipes) its just that they have a small radiator and they dump heat in the case rather than outside.


people can get the i5 2500k to hit 4.5ghz @1.3v on high end air and stay below 60 degrees full load. there is barely any real world performance difference between 5.0ghz and 4.5ghz. 60 degrees is a perfectly fine. isnt this good enough? if you watercooled instead you might get 45 degrees on full load? how does it matter, you are well below tj max and you will most likely replace your CPU before it breaks due to that 15 degrees for extra heat...

now think what is going to happen with newer components. the 28nm gpus are significantly cooler than the 32nm. im imagining 22nm CPUs will run much cooler than 32nm cpus.
Edited by rishflab - 4/17/12 at 11:33pm
    
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post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indulgence View Post

wait, what?! no no no.. water cooling is in the top tier of cooling the components (mainstream that is). the reasons i can see why people thinks the way like you TS is that they have a limited budget, afraid to try new things, and doesnt really understand what water cooling is..

so again, no, water cooling is not and will not become obsolete..

I think he understands it quite well honestly. I think he knows that water is the top tier for today's components. He is thinking more about future components and what die space shrinking is going to do to heat dispersion. Read up on it some, it is a real issue. Water cooling could very well become virtually obsolete(marginal gains over air) for normal desktop use if they do not do something.

I am not doom and gloom'ing water cooling by any means. Just bringing up some real troubles that are lying ahead.
Edited by Strat79 - 4/17/12 at 11:20pm
post #68 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishflab View Post

you probably dont notice it america but in AUS there is limited variety when it comes to watercooling. it is pretty pricey as well suggesting the market for it is small. a $50 air cooler is a lot more difficult and expensive to manufacture than a waterblock. why is that waterblocks cost the same price?
watercooling is good at cooling although it is costly and time consuming, im just not sure whether such levels of cooling will be required in the future. heatpipe air coolers are water coolers technically (there is a working fluid inside the heatpipes) its just that they have a small radiator and they dump heat in the case rather than outside.
people can get the i5 2500k to hit 4.5ghz @1.3v on high end air and stay below 60 degrees full load. there is barely any real world performance difference between 5.0ghz and 4.5ghz. 60 degrees is a perfectly fine. isnt this good enough? if you watercooled instead you might get 45 degrees on full load? how does it matter, you are well below tj max and you will most likely replace your CPU before it breaks due to that 15 degrees for extra heat...

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=207_160

Fairly decent prices...

Waterblocks aren't that much easier to manufacture, and generally they use better quality materials...

Yeah, there is little difference in 4.5ghz and 5ghz... This is an overclocking forum though, and we don't just settle for "acceptable".

Also watercooling looks better wink.gif
post #69 of 80
Indeed, while I see almost no difference between stock and 5ghz (even for gaming), does that mean I will choose to run it at stock? Not at all. wink.gif
    
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post #70 of 80
just so your know we are not to far away from the next console gen ps3 and 360 wont last forever
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