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[TPU] NVIDIA to Launch GeForce GTX 690 Before May 5 - Page 13

post #121 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizonian View Post

@whitespider - I will link another article to back up what you said about Nvidia having less micro stutter than AMD by Tom's Hardware (right here) later today.
Basically in short, Nvidia has less micro stutter than AMD because they address the micro stutter issue aiming for higher quality HOWEVER comes at the cost of having less scalability than AMD. Hence why AMD has greater scaling with multiple GPU's than Nvidia. They confirm that both do have it, but Nvidia less micro stutter than AMD at the cost of scalability.
Make sense now to everyone? (Link incoming when I get to my computer in four hours).

I know the article you are talking about.

What's surprising is that we are getting scaling results 'on par' 'above' or 'slightly below' 7970 cfx vs 680 sli. That's pretty bloody impressive. In other words, they are trading blows. And when I say scaling results I mean 'framerates', and by framerates I mean "Those figures on paper that people respect but don't mean much unless you actually see those figures hold hands and be friends with eachother"

Another thing that's surprising is that I can go to 20 forums (not that I generally do, 1-2 forum kind of guy), and each of them can be full of people talking about "Framerates", screenshots with little yellow fraps numbers in the left corner of the screen. "I have crossfire x battlefield 3, and it's 90fps". That's the kind of information I was influenced by when I upgraded from my 5970 to my 6990. Prior to having a duel gpu card, the listed framerate was pretty much what you got. Back then microstutter was talked about in 1 post out of every 90. I thought these odds meant that it was a 'rare' issue. Not a universal issue that exists, or rests - rather on the users perception/care. To this day, a large number of people will still look for traditional stutter - see none, and say "I don't know what you guys are talking about, I don't get any microstutter" - while simultaneously getting 54fps in "insert name" game that drops below 60fps and seeing something around 30, and an imperfect 30 at that.

I guess it does not truly affect me if someone is willing to put up with it, admit it exists, whatever path they choose to take on the issue. The reason I even care enough to write long posts - is that I feel that there absolutely has to be people in a situation similar to mine. And while forums like this certainly talk about the issue - I feel information is only really starting to become mainstream since the tom's hardware article. And it's still very limited. Review sites 'Except the hard ocp one I just linked' - don't tackle the issue. They continue with their ancient game benchmarks, and talk about 'power effecency, and average framerates.

It took me an entire expensive multi-gpu setup to learn my lesson. I can picture a lot of people just feeling unsatisfied, and never really putting their finger on why. The majority - even. This forum might be an exception because it's a bunch of 'elite' people on it. However some guy who just wants to play games at super high framerates - could always just feel amiss about something never really feeling quite as smooth as he imagined.

And that's a damn shame.
Edited by Whitespider999 - 4/27/12 at 4:09am

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post #122 of 151
Anyways.....

Wouldn't it make more sense to release the 685 first? With the 680 supply issues, Nvidia is clearly short. They would obviously want enough units on the market to keep up with demand and lose as few sales as possible. If they're still having supply problems, I doubt they have enough to make the 690 (unless supply problems are because of the 690, but, eh).

All the talk about the 680 not blowing away the 7970 like everyone thought it would might be the exact reason why they're releasing the 685 so soon? To undeniably take the crown? It kind of does seem quite early for a dual-GPU card, seeing as AMD hasn't even announced and solid plans yet as far as I know.
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post #123 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

Then it looks like you had a faulty 590. It doesn't mean that your experience applies to the entirety of every single GTX 590 ever produced.
Besides, with all of the heat problems you encountered and told the whole world about, who knows what kind of crap happened with your 590? We don't know if you overclocked it, if you were hitting a power-limiting wall, if the card was throttling due to OC or voltage issues - we have no proof of any of that. But to try and argue that microstuttering is inherent in all dual-GPU cards, specifically with a model you happened to own for a short amount of time and had problems with is absolutely ridiculous. Your proof is, you experienced what *appeared* to be microstuttering, with what is 99% likely to have been a faulty or terribly binned card, and seem to think that your experience automatically makes dual-GPU cards/SLI configs inherently flawed. Uh, what?
What's even funnier is, you seem to think the technology behind a dual GPU card and SLI is somehow different - sorry, but no. If microstuttering was as inherent in GPU setups as you think it is, again....no one would spend any amount of money for it, since games would be unplayable. Again, stop spewing garbage about things you obviously know nothing about.

The more you talk the more ignorant you sound.



http://techreport.com/articles.x/21516/11
Quote:
Multi-GPU micro-stuttering: Real... and really complicated
We didn't set out to hunt down multi-GPU micro-stuttering. We just wanted to try some new methods of measuring performance, but those methods helped us identify an interesting problem. I think that means we're on the right track, but the micro-stuttering issue complicates our task quite a bit.

Naturally, we contacted the major graphics chip vendors to see what they had to say about the issue. Somewhat to our surprise, representatives from both AMD and Nvidia quickly and forthrightly acknowledged that multi-GPU micro-stuttering is a real problem, is what we measured in our frame-time analysis, and is difficult to address. Both companies said they've been studying this problem for some time, too. That's intriguing, because neither firm saw fit to inform potential customers about the issue when introducing its most recent multi-GPU product, say the Radeon HD 6990 or the GeForce GTX 590. Hmm.


For your own sake talk less thumb.gif

How exactly does that article invalidate anything i said? Congratulations, you can cherry pick sections and use them as a rebuttal! rolleyes.gif

I've read what you posted before, and any PERCEIVED microstutter is completely dependent on a LOT of factors. What you had been describing is something like an inherent problem across all multi-GPU setups that should be easily perceptible. The problem is, it isn't. Think whatever you want to think, but the fact is, the vast majority of SLI/CF owners have no issues with microstuttering. If you want to believe that we only don't notice it because we're "lucky," then that's entirely up to you.
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post #124 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

How exactly does that article invalidate anything i said? Congratulations, you can cherry pick sections and use them as a rebuttal! rolleyes.gif
I've read what you posted before, and any PERCEIVED microstutter is completely dependent on a LOT of factors. What you had been describing is something like an inherent problem across all multi-GPU setups that should be easily perceptible. The problem is, it isn't. Think whatever you want to think, but the fact is, the vast majority of SLI/CF owners have no issues with microstuttering. If you want to believe that we only don't notice it because we're "lucky," then that's entirely up to you.
You don't get it. Microstutter is inherent in all multiGPU-setups using Alternate Frame Rendering. There is no way to eliminate microstutter, but there are certainly ways to minimize it. No matter what you try to say, microstutter will never disappear and there will always be a small amount people complaining about it.

There are people more sensitive to microstutter than others as well, I will notice microstutter on a pal's setup of 6990+6970 getting 150 fps while my pal didn't notice any problems at all. Several times, I have looked at a game being played and commented "you run SLI or Crossfire, right?" And I am always right.

I think it's more a case of the majority of people won't notice microstutter, while a select few "lucky" ones will notice it easier.
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post #125 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

How exactly does that article invalidate anything i said? Congratulations, you can cherry pick sections and use them as a rebuttal!


Your eyes are really that bad eh? No wonder you can't see any MS or jerky framerates! Let me repost your ignorance again with a bigger font.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

Then it looks like you had a faulty 590. It doesn't mean that your experience applies to the entirety of every single GTX 590 ever produced.
Besides, with all of the heat problems you encountered and told the whole world about, who knows what kind of crap happened with your 590? We don't know if you overclocked it, if you were hitting a power-limiting wall, if the card was throttling due to OC or voltage issues - we have no proof of any of that. But to try and argue that microstuttering is inherent in all dual-GPU cards, specifically with a model you happened to own for a short amount of time and had problems with is absolutely ridiculous. Your proof is, you experienced what *appeared* to be microstuttering, with what is 99% likely to have been a faulty or terribly binned card, and seem to think that your experience automatically makes dual-GPU cards/SLI configs inherently flawed. Uh, what?
What's even funnier is, you seem to think the technology behind a dual GPU card and SLI is somehow different - sorry, but no. If microstuttering was as inherent in GPU setups as you think it is, again....no one would spend any amount of money for it, since games would be unplayable. Again, stop spewing garbage about things you obviously know nothing about.




You don't know what you're talking about. Even AMD and Nvidia quickly admit that MS is a real problem inherent in all multi-gpu setups.



http://techreport.com/articles.x/21516/11
Quote:
Multi-GPU micro-stuttering: Real... and really complicated
We didn't set out to hunt down multi-GPU micro-stuttering. We just wanted to try some new methods of measuring performance, but those methods helped us identify an interesting problem. I think that means we're on the right track, but the micro-stuttering issue complicates our task quite a bit.

Naturally, we contacted the major graphics chip vendors to see what they had to say about the issue. Somewhat to our surprise, representatives from both AMD and Nvidia quickly and forthrightly acknowledged that multi-GPU micro-stuttering is a real problem, is what we measured in our frame-time analysis, and is difficult to address. Both companies said they've been studying this problem for some time, too. That's intriguing, because neither firm saw fit to inform potential customers about the issue when introducing its most recent multi-GPU product, say the Radeon HD 6990 or the GeForce GTX 590. Hmm.
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post #126 of 151
4GB VRAM 680??? any day?? Come on.. you can do it! Release the damn card already so I can have my surround back... sheesh.
post #127 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by xentrox View Post

4GB VRAM 680??? any day?? Come on.. you can do it! Release the damn card already so I can have my surround back... sheesh.

Use 2 x Gtx 680 then smile.gif
 
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post #128 of 151
Anyone know when Gtx 690 will be available in store after release? I'm sick of waiting Ivy bridge although it has been release on 23th April.
 
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post #129 of 151
As weird as this may sound, I really only notice microstuttering in certain games. Most notable being the older games. If it happens in the others, I don't notice it. Or see it. Or it isn't happening.
post #130 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackroush View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xentrox View Post

4GB VRAM 680??? any day?? Come on.. you can do it! Release the damn card already so I can have my surround back... sheesh.

Use 2 x Gtx 680 then smile.gif

You know two cards doesn't give you 4 GB right ? It's only shared 2gb with 2GB duplicate data on both cards so you are only using 2GB.
 
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