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How would you change the Obsidian 800D? - Page 4

Poll Results: What would you change about the Obsidian 800D?

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 22% of voters (91)
    Make it bigger - I want more radiator capacity.
  • 24% of voters (102)
    Improve airflow for aircooling
  • 8% of voters (34)
    Fit large motherboards like the SR-2 / SR-X
  • 18% of voters (77)
    More aluminum!
  • 0% of voters (0)
    Less aluminum!
  • 12% of voters (53)
    Make it white
  • 11% of voters (48)
    Fill it with live bees
  • 3% of voters (14)
    Other (posted in thread)
412 Total Votes  
post #31 of 125
I own a 650D, but anyway this is "a must" for any next Obsidian case if you want to IMPROVE it.

- More space behind the right side panel so all the cables can fit easier.
- More aluminum. Front panel, side panels if possible, buttons ...wherever, more = better/more stylish.
- DO NOT PUT ANY KIND OF A MESH for exhaust and front intake fans. No one wants them, no one fil cut a finger if they aren't there, put a removable grill or something like that instead. Airflow + mesh = humming we don't wanna hear.
- If a side window is an option, don't put it too low, that way when looked from above (I keep my case on the ground, as most people do) I can only see half of my motherboard. Whole upper part of a motherboard isn't visible (don't like this on my 650D).
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post #32 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleH2O View Post

This is a high-end enthusiast case. The high-end computer market is certainly not moving towards small at all, rather quite the opposite. If you want a case for a small, cool and silent (those three hardly ever goes together particularly well btw, especially if you want a fair amount of performance) system, you've come to the wrong place.
Again, you're in the wrong place.

well, that depends on how you look at things. high performance systems are "smaller" and more energy efficient then previous generation. sandybridge uses 32nm technology. ivybridge uses 22nm technology. there a very large reduction in power consumption between the 2 technologies given identical workload. the difference is we are pushing the new technology to do MORE work so the end result is the similar/same TDP. take the 3770K for example. it's a 95 watt chip. so essentially you have a top end i7 chip drawing the same power as the 2500k chip. from where i'm sitting, it does seem like things are getting smaller, cooler, and as a result quieter....(especially considering people are using ever bigger heatsinks/fans/rad's to cool things down) heck might as well make the 800D compatible with that 540mm rad that was built for the FT02 biggrin.gif not gonna find a rad that cools better then that INSIDE a case smile.gif

the direction i'm proposing is taking into consideration of where the overall technology is moving towards. look at the roadmap for haswell, broadwell, skylake and skymont. you will see the eventuality of where things are going. DO realize this "800D Mk2" we are talking about WILL be in use long after skymont is RELEASED... that's possibly a 10 nm chip with hybrid diamond components. MUCH smaller, more powerful and energy efficient then current technology.

i guess it's my age that's showing through here but i remember building and gaming on computers that were FAR less powerful then an iphone biggrin.gif so when i say things do become smaller cooler and silent, i'm taking into consideration of the expected useful lifetime of the 800D.
post #33 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RanGTO View Post

I own a 650D, but anyway this is "a must" for any next Obsidian case if you want to IMPROVE it.
- More space behind the right side panel so all the cables can fit easier.
- More aluminum. Front panel, side panels if possible, buttons ...wherever, more = better/more stylish.
- DO NOT PUT ANY KIND OF A MESH for exhaust and front intake fans. No one wants them, no one fil cut a finger if they aren't there, put a removable grill or something like that instead. Airflow + mesh = humming we don't wanna hear.
- If a side window is an option, don't put it too low, that way when looked from above (I keep my case on the ground, as most people do) I can only see half of my motherboard. Whole upper part of a motherboard isn't visible (don't like this on my 650D).

There has to be a type of cover over the fans for liability purposes, but it can be a removable mesh panel like the 650D/600T dust filter. If I had the 650D/600T to design over again, I'd have cut out the mesh in the metal case over the 200mm front intake and used just the dust filter.

Maybe I'll do that if we ever do a next-gen 600T/650D case. I'd probably add dual 120mm mounts up there as well, lots of people wanted that.

As for the 600T/650D window being low, it's necessary because of the way the side panel attaches with the latches on top. We could re-design the mechanism to be more like 550D/800D though, I guess.

Oh well, adding things to the list for 650D V2.0 or whatever, on my big list of desired changes to stuff I'd like to work on one day.
post #34 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

1st suggestion is make it wider, MUCH wider. wide enough to use 200mm fans. this way the 800D would be a viable option for air cooling. radiator kit manufactures have already taken the 1st step in making 180mm and 200mm rads. it's up to corsair to push in that direction so we can get out of the 120mm dark ages biggrin.gif as of right now. corsair has NOTHING that can compete with silverstone in air cooling department. that makes silverstone arrogant enough to push a "none standard" 180mm fan onto the market... IMO the computing industry is settling onto 200mm as the next big standard and corsair can be the main driving force behind that becoming the commonly accepted standard. the industry NEED to settle onto a new standard so fan manufactures can start developing better fans for the larger standard. as of right now, there just aren't ANY high quality fans larger then 140mm and there are only a few in the 140mm size. most of best developed fans are still 120mm.
It's interesting, one of the things I've learned over the past few years is about the sweet spots when it comes to fan noise/size. Most 200mm fans are very slow spinning, which is why they're quiet. The stock fans we initially shipped with the 600T were 800 RPM, and we wanted to up performance so we sourced a new vendor, and went with faster, 1000 RPM versions for the newer 600T (after May 2011) and 650D. The problem? Noise increased significantly, even in open air.

So we did some testing. A lot of testing. One of the things we found was that as fans spin faster, larger fans start to make a lot more noise. It seems obvious - for example, the velocity of a 120mm fan blade and a 200mm fan blade (on a 1,200 RPM fan, let's say) at the junction of the blade and hub is about the same. But when you go out to the tips of the blades, the 120mm blades are spinning slower than the 200mm blades.

Think of it like a spinning record or a tire. The outer diameter has to cover a greater distance on a larger object, and so larger fans make more noise at the same RPM. However, the way to get around this is to put the larger fans at lower RPMs, where they can push the same (or slightly greater) airflow than a 120mm at lower noise levels. For example, the 120mm fans we use on the 550D are 1200 RPM, produce about 33 CFM each, and run at around 18 dBA, while the original 600T fans were 800 RPM, 76 CFM, and 24 dBA. So they were much louder, more than twice as powerful, and 2/3 the RPM.

The issue then comes down to static pressure (which most 200mm fans aren't great at) and matching the design of the fan to its use. We'll definitely have improved designs of fans in the future - we always improve upon our products. But improved doesn't always mean bigger. 120mm is a very nice sweet spot for pressure, noise, and airflow inside a PC case. 140mm is becoming more popular, but just because a fan is bigger doesn't necessarily mean it's a better match, right?

Quote:
2nd suggestion may seen counter productive and that is make the case smaller... things are getting smaller and much more powerful these days. the NEED for 3 or more video cards in the consumer market is disappearing (not that it was that high of a demand to begin with) there is really nothing a pair of 7970 / 680GTX couldn't render and gaming with multiple monitors is never going to be "standard" due to the cost issue. smaller case (height and length wise, not width) fits modern day computing much better. we are already at 22 / 28nm technology and will soon be looking at 15nm and 10nm technology... excessively large / hot / loud cases will be a thing of the past. people you are playing the game with don't want to hear your delta fans blasting over ventrillo biggrin.gif small, cool, and silent is the direction computing is moving towards.

You just described a completely different product. The 800D is designed to be the king of everything - smaller, more compact designs are going to be more popular, and we'll look at those too, but there's no reason that both can't exist.
post #35 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

It's interesting, one of the things I've learned over the past few years is about the sweet spots when it comes to fan noise/size. Most 200mm fans are very slow spinning, which is why they're quiet. The stock fans we initially shipped with the 600T were 800 RPM, and we wanted to up performance so we sourced a new vendor, and went with faster, 1000 RPM versions for the newer 600T (after May 2011) and 650D. The problem? Noise increased significantly, even in open air.
So we did some testing. A lot of testing. One of the things we found was that as fans spin faster, larger fans start to make a lot more noise. It seems obvious - for example, the velocity of a 120mm fan blade and a 200mm fan blade (on a 1,200 RPM fan, let's say) at the junction of the blade and hub is about the same. But when you go out to the tips of the blades, the 120mm blades are spinning slower than the 200mm blades.
Think of it like a spinning record or a tire. The outer diameter has to cover a greater distance on a larger object, and so larger fans make more noise at the same RPM. However, the way to get around this is to put the larger fans at lower RPMs, where they can push the same (or slightly greater) airflow than a 120mm at lower noise levels. For example, the 120mm fans we use on the 550D are 1200 RPM, produce about 33 CFM each, and run at around 18 dBA, while the original 600T fans were 800 RPM, 76 CFM, and 24 dBA. So they were much louder, more than twice as powerful, and 2/3 the RPM.
The issue then comes down to static pressure (which most 200mm fans aren't great at) and matching the design of the fan to its use. We'll definitely have improved designs of fans in the future - we always improve upon our products. But improved doesn't always mean bigger. 120mm is a very nice sweet spot for pressure, noise, and airflow inside a PC case. 140mm is becoming more popular, but just because a fan is bigger doesn't necessarily mean it's a better match, right?

personally, i believe (tho i can be wrong biggrin.gif ) this is a result of the lack in development for the 200mm size. fan blade shape, angle of attack and motor size have all been optimized from hell and back on the 120mm size, (much like 80mm fans before that). if the same development effort was put into the 200mm size, things may be different. I understand the speed differential between the inner blade and outer blade and the resulting difference in decibel levels. however as you've also pointed out, the primary advantage of a larger fan is the fact that you don't have to spin it as fast to generate the same or greater airflow.

as far as static pressure, i think if more development was put into the 200mm size in terms of fan blade shape and angle of attack of the blade, it can be at least partially resolved even at the lower expected RPM. maybe scythe will eventually make a 200mm gentle typhoon? biggrin.gif the point is the current generation of 200mm fans are simply "larger" sized 120mm fans much like when the industry 1st moved to the 120mm standard and the 120mm fans were simply "larger" 80mm fans. as time went on, 120mm fans evolved into its own animal with vastly different fan blade shapes then their 80mm counterpart. (80mm looked more like winglets while 120mm looks more like scoops)

there is also a difference between having a single large fan vs multiple smaller fans. each fan carries its own static pressure, and when there are multiple fans at work, the static pressure of each fan is fighting with each other. as a result, the fan with a weaker static pressure becomes less efficient due to the "back pressure" that is created by the static pressure of the stronger fans. this would be less of a problem if there are fewer fans.

anyway, I still think the industry is moving towards a 200mm standard considering corsair, coolermaster, antec and NZXT all have dabbled in that size and generally speaking it has been well received by the community at large. it would be a shame that the improved flagship product ends up using a smaller fans then existing products.
post #36 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

anyway, I still think the industry is moving towards a 200mm standard considering corsair, coolermaster, antec and NZXT all have dabbled in that size and generally speaking it has been well received by the community at large. it would be a shame that the improved flagship product ends up using a smaller fans then existing products.

I think the goal should be to use the best fans for the application. If you're making a watercooling case, and most radiators are 120mm or 140mm variants (120, 240, 360, 480 or 140, 280, 420) then putting 200mm fan mounts on it might actually make it more difficult for the watercooling enthusiast to use as designed.
post #37 of 125
Make it so a 480 fits up top, make it so I can either lay a 240 in the bottom or 240 in the front panel, or BOTH! And a wee bit more height for big MB's would be very nice too, that would complete it as far as high end builds. Another inch and a half would get large boards and ensure a push/pull fan setup on thick rads would be wise.

**Also George, if you could add a brace, that's removable on the bottom tray. Once we remove the bottom drive trays to put in a 240, the case loses a bit of structural rigidity. An optional brace that we could screw in to replace that load bearing point would be thoughtful.

I could care less about aircooling, what the heck! Go buy an aircooling case if you want to aircool guys.
Edited by tsm106 - 4/23/12 at 12:45pm
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post #38 of 125

My vote goes to more radiator room, but live bees would be a hoot as well.

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post #39 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

I think the goal should be to use the best fans for the application. If you're making a watercooling case, and most radiators are 120mm or 140mm variants (120, 240, 360, 480 or 140, 280, 420) then putting 200mm fan mounts on it might actually make it more difficult for the watercooling enthusiast to use as designed.

oh absolutely, i'm not saying abandoning the existing rad community. i'm saying make it so that it's wide enough to also accommodate possible future additions to the rad family. as i mentioned, there's already a 540mm rad (3x180) on the market and it's just a monstrosity of a rad that you can really run the whole system off of that one rad. the whole thing about it is that if you make the case wide enough for a 200mm fan, smaller fans/rads will also fit in there smile.gif it's just a matter of pre-drilling the mounting holes into the top of the chassis.

fractal R3 has a fairly elegant solution to the problem. they pre drilled the side panel, but also include a piece of acoustic foam to cover up the hole if you aren't using it. same can be done with the top of the 800D chassis. I think it can be done well enough to not detract from the beauty of the chassis
post #40 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

anyway, I still think the industry is moving towards a 200mm standard considering corsair, coolermaster, antec and NZXT all have dabbled in that size and generally speaking it has been well received by the community at large. it would be a shame that the improved flagship product ends up using a smaller fans then existing products.

Although the 200mm fans are getting more common, I still don't think we'll see the 120mm and 140mm fans getting obsolete anytime soon. I simply don't see the 200mm fans being anywhere near as practical as their smaller brethren. If all the main fans in a system is that big, it would be much harder to take advantage of available space for fans/rads. The only practical design would be something like Silverstone's offerings (which, since you obviously own one, is probably somewhat biased towards tongue.gif). Like CorsairGeorge also states, it wouldn't be a particularly good move for them to attempt to push a new standard of fans in a case with an emphasis on water cooling. Enthusiasts probably already have a lot of gear they would like to re-use in their new case. I know I do rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

I could care less about aircooling, what the heck! Go buy an aircooling case if you want to aircool guys.

This! thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

Oh well, adding things to the list for 650D V2.0 or whatever, on my big list of desired changes to stuff I'd like to work on one day.

I think it looks a bit like people want another, brand new case on top of a new 800D as well. Seeing as a lot of the suggestions here would make a lot more sense in a smaller, lower-end case. It would certainly be interesting to take a peek at that list of yours, though tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

they pre drilled the side panel, but also include a piece of acoustic foam to cover up the hole if you aren't using it. same can be done with the top of the 800D chassis. I think it can be done well enough to not detract from the beauty of the chassis

Although something like that would be an awesome feature to have, I think it would completely destroy the aesthetics of the case. And considering the targeted users, that would probably be a considerable draw-back. If they did something like that, I would more than likely turn elsewhere for my next case. And for god's sake, don't add fan mounts in the side panel of a case like this tongue.gif

While I do see your point of view, I don't think it would be a good move to attempt to force a new standard of fans in a case like this. It's not exactly like the water cooling community are falling over themselves to jump on the 200mm bandwagon tongue.gif

It's a bit funny btw, that on one side you're really pushing the 200mm fans, and on the other you're proclaiming the move to "small, cool and silent" rolleyes.gif
Edited by TripleH2O - 4/23/12 at 7:53pm
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