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post #221 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

Ridiculous. Bulldozer is NOT worse than Phenom II. It ain't a huge upgrade but it is still an upgrade. And so what if AMD didn't do great with Bulldozer? They suck now because Phenom II and Athlon II were great but Bulldozer isn't? Rather than flaming them all over the internet, why not wait and see what they come out with next?
And they did not hype bulldozer. Quite the opposite really as they didn't say a word about it til it was released. The rest was marketing spin. What did you want them to do? "Don't buy an FX chip cause the forum nerds don't like it so it must suck"? Yeah its slower than Sandy Bridge but its still a damn good processor. A Ferrari is faster than a BMW but I'd sure love to have a BMW. My X6 is maxing out all my games just fine.
Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2
This.
A Thuban usually hits the wall @ 4Ghz,Bulldozer can hit 5Ghz,although at 5Ghz you won't see a huge performance increase,but you will have less of a bottleneck if you are running multiple GPU's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Projector View Post

As others have said the 6200 is no where near comparable to a 1090t its more like a quad, if you go bulldozer you either go an 8120/50 or you don't go at all.
In gaming and most real world apps,the 6200 would be about on par with a 1090T,if you benchmark all day,that's another story. In the end it doesn't matter because you cannot find a new 1090T for sale.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/23/12 at 2:52pm
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post #222 of 627
Hi all, just finished idly reading through all these pages at work. I know exactly where everyone is coming from; my last gaming PC had a 2500K which I bought from Microcenter a year ago for $193 after tax and OC'd it, it ran cool, loved everything about it. Before that I owned a Phenom x4 955 which I also loved. I just now sold my PC like I usually do annually though, so I'm back to looking at my options, when I came across this thread.

Here's the problem I'm running into when considering an AMD system *right now* though.
We all know that a Phenom x4 or x6 is the way to go if you game with AMD until we see major review sites revealing real numbers from Piledriver. (Bulldozer is only recommendable if you -- yes you -- plan on using programs that use all eight cores.) So, I made my notepad hardware list like most of us probably do when planning a new build, and was reminded that in a PC, every single part is completely identical between AMD and Intel besides the CPU and Motherboard. Same drives, same video cards, same RAM, same PSU, same everything. Therefore, the only difference in price between an Intel or AMD system is dictated by the CPU and Motherboard.

Hardware Costs
AMD PC: $972
CPU: 189 (1090T)
Mobo: 130 (990FX ATX upper-model mobo, 8-phase w/ VRM heatsinks etc.)
Everything else: 653

Intel PC: $1023
CPU: 220 (2500K)
Mobo: 150 (Z77 ATX upper-model mobo, 8-phase w/ VRM heatsinks etc.)
Everything else: 653

So in the end, comparing the total cost between the two ($972 and $1023) only shows a 5% difference, with much more than a 5% performance gap between them -- I won't add sources to prove this as we all (should) know that the 2500K is more than 5% faster already, with or without overclocking factored in. Here's something else that nobody has mentioned yet though.

Electricity Costs (source here)
- The 2500K system running between 3.3GHz to 4.9GHz uses ~80 Watts power @ idle.
- The 1090T/1100T system running between 3.3GHz to 4.2GHz uses 108-146 Watts power @ idle.
The gap between the two only multiplies when you launch a game. If you compare electricity costs with any of the available online calculators, the electricity cost of running a 2500K system will make up the $50 difference in no more than two years for a light user and just one year for a heavier user (i.e. people like us wink.gif)

I'd keep going but I'm out of time here at work. I really want to like AMD, but the bang-for-the-buck side of me just isn't letting me do it right now. I say "right now" because Piledriver could help AMD out in a big way, but I'm holding onto my cash until I see actual numbers. Trinity's CPU performance (two Piledriver modules) -- or at least the little we know about it to date -- looks promising. thumb.gif Let's just hope the resonant clock mesh and other tweaks can do something about the power consumption too.
Edited by computerdr - 4/24/12 at 4:19pm
post #223 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerdr View Post

Hi all, just finished idly reading through all these pages at work. I know exactly where everyone is coming from; my last gaming PC had a 2500K which I bought from Microcenter a year ago for $193 after tax and OC'd it, it ran cool, loved everything about it. Before that I owned a Phenom x4 955 which I also loved. I just now sold my PC like I usually do annually though, so I'm back to looking at my options, when I came across this thread.
Here's the problem I'm running into when considering an AMD system *right now* though.
We all know that a Phenom x4 or x6 is the way to go if you game with AMD until we see major review sites revealing real numbers from Piledriver. (Bulldozer is only recommendable if you -- yes you -- plan on using programs that use all eight cores.) So, I made my notepad hardware list like most of us probably do when planning a new build, and was reminded that in a PC, every single part is completely identical between AMD and Intel besides the CPU and Motherboard. Same drives, same video cards, same RAM, same PSU, same everything. Therefore, the only difference in price between an Intel or AMD system is dictated by the CPU and Motherboard.
Hardware Costs
AMD PC: $972
CPU: 189 (1090T)
Mobo: 130 (990FX ATX upper-model mobo, 8-phase w/ VRM heatsinks etc.)
Everything else: 653
Intel PC: $1023
CPU: 220 (2500K)
Mobo: 150 (Z77 ATX upper-model mobo, 8-phase w/ VRM heatsinks etc.)
Everything else: 653
So in the end, comparing the total cost between the two ($972 and $1023) only shows a 5% difference, with much more than a 5% performance gap between them -- I won't add sources to prove this as we all (should) know that the 2500K is more than 5% faster already, with or without overclocking factored in. Here's something else that nobody has mentioned yet though.
Electricity Costs (source here)
- The 2500K system running between 3.3GHz to 4.9GHz uses ~80 Watts power @ idle.
- The 1090T/1100T system running between 3.3GHz to 4.2GHz uses 108-146 Watts power @ idle.
The gap between the two only multiplies when you launch a game. If you compare electricity costs with any of the available online calculators, the electricity cost of running a 2500K system will make up the $50 difference in no more than two years for a light user and just one year for a heavier user (i.e. people like us wink.gif)
I'd keep going but I'm out of time here at work. I really want to like AMD, but the bang-for-the-buck side of me just isn't letting me do it right now. I say "right now" because Piledriver could help AMD out in a big way, but I'm holding onto my cash until I see actual numbers. Trinity's CPU performance (two Piledriver modules) -- or at least the little we know about it to date -- looks promising. thumb.gif
First of all,not everyone has a microcenter near them. Those prices don't matter unless you have MC within reasonable driving distance. Also this isn't about how much better SB is vs. how much Phenom II sucks,it's a Piledriver thread.
The electricity comparison is downright pointless,of course a 6 core will use more power than a quad core.
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post #224 of 627
also getting a 1090T is pointless, a 1055T will OC exactly the same.
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post #225 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG 
First of all,not everyone has a microcenter near them. Those prices don't matter unless you have MC within reasonable driving distance.
The prices I quoted are not Microcenter prices, the 2500K is Newegg and the 1090T is the lowest Google Shopping price I could find online -- prices anyone can buy the parts for. A quick check on Newegg could show you that... rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG 
Also this isn't about how much better SB is vs. how much Phenom II sucks,it's a Piledriver thread.
I contributed more Piledriver information than anyone else has in the past 20 pages or so in the last paragraph of my post. In fact, here and here are the only screenshots that the Internet has seen so far to give any hint of its CPU performance, which is what I based my paragraph off of. All sources also say that GPU performance is up between 50-60%. It appears to be faster than Bulldozer, which is good news for us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG 
The electricity comparison is downright pointless,of course a 6 core will use more power than a quad core.
The readers who know how much of a difference CPU core architecture makes will know that this statement is simply wrong, no need for me to even comment on this. (four Phenom II cores still use more power than four Sandy Bridge cores anyway, especially overclocked... giggle.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd 
also getting a 1090T is pointless, a 1055T will OC exactly the same.
If you believe this to be true, then you haven't done your homework on CPU binning. But OK, let's play the price game. We'll save $50 and buy a 1055T, and save $50 on the Intel platform on an i5-2300. Intel wins at that price point, too! The i5-2300 OC's to 3.3-3.5GHz via the Turbo multiplier, but it outperforms the x6 at both stock and overclocked frequencies anyway, saving a few trees (lower power consumption again) in the process. See source. I imagine the locked multiplier will turn off a 'mentionable' (not a real word rolleyes.gif) amount of people interested in OCing anyway.


"You can choose your opinions, but you can't choose your facts."
If you believe any of AMD's current processors offer more value for the money, you've become the victim of a terrible lie. If you don't take my word for it, take Tom's Hardware's word. smile.gif

Again, I want to reiterate that I don't hate AMD, but I'm only giving you the facts to get rid of all this confusion that so many people seem to have. I'm literally looking up 960T reviews, A10-5800K benchmarks, and 990FX motherboard reviews almost daily, waiting for the day when I can finally happily buy an AMD processor and chipset. There just is no reason to buy an AMD gaming platform at any price point at this point in time, but I hope people continue buying their dollar-worthy Athlon II x3/x4 and Llano CPUs at the very least to keep them on the upswing until they pump out Piledriver and their new APUs based off it. For now, the only thing we can do is wait.

By the way, Intel vs AMD may soon be a thing of the past.

Yep, I do my homework. Also, if you want any of us to believe anything you're saying is true, try linking sources. tongue.gif

(btw, if you can find a sweet deal on an AMD processor and motherboard instead of paying full price, then by all means disregard all of this and GO FOR IT!) smile.gif
Edited by computerdr - 4/24/12 at 8:48pm
post #226 of 627
Well Computerdr just pretty much put the lid on that argument.

As far as Piledriver goes I think they need a 20% IPC increase minimum to be a viable alternative to intel again. If they do that their CPUs will own Intels in multi-threaded apps and be only slightly worse in gaming and apps that use less then 4 cores. At the very least PD will be a viable alternative rather then a laughable abomination (BD).

Here's to hoping because I also am a fan of AMD and would like to see them relevant again. As it stands right now AMD is not even on my raader when it comes to new CPU purchases. I'm going to buy a laptop this year so I may look into Trinity but Ivy's GPU is massively increased and I value CPU speed more then GPU speed in a laptop so I'm still not sure if Trinity even represents a good choice for me. A laptop is not what I want to use to play games so it's impressive iGPU performance is not as important to me. People that do like to game on laptops though I think Trinity will be a big hit with.
    
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post #227 of 627
im curious as to how hes gonna OC a locked CPU...
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post #228 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

im curious as to how hes gonna OC a locked CPU...

with fsb
post #229 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by idonthavefleas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

im curious as to how hes gonna OC a locked CPU...

with fsb

thats AMD
congrats
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post #230 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

thats AMD
congrats

o thought we was talking about amd cpu im lost as usaul lol
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