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post #271 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post


Leaked benchmarks of Trinity show 9%ish better Integer performance and barely any FPU performance increase. Search Trinity and you'll find the thread, it was in the news section a few days ago. 10% overall performance is a stretch, I was being generous.

Steamroller is what I'm waiting for. It's pretty clear the Bulldozer architecture is fundamentally flawed.

thats like saying llano has bulldozer performance...

Umm what? Llano doesn't have Bulldozer cores in it so yeah that'd be a pretty dumb thing to say.

But Trinity has 2 Piledriver modules in it. Explain to me how it's unreasonable to assume Trinity's CPU performance won't be indicative of what we'll be seeing in a few months?

Trinity and Vishera are 2 totally different things. One is meant to work as a CPU/graphics combo that uses little energy. Vishera is a desktop high end processor. You can't really look at Trinity and say what Piledriver will do because they're designed to do different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sLowEnd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

So what if its on the same socket? Im glad its gonna be on the same socket so I wont have to buy a brand new motherboard to replace my beloved Sabertooth when Piledriver hits. Im all for backward compatibility as are most consumers which is why Intel made IB backward compatible.

AMD can't ride on backwards compatibility forever without hitting walls imposed by the old design.
I dread the day when AMD inevitably has to switch sockets, because there will likely be a lot of conceited community backlash aimed at them. (For a while now, AMD advocates have used backwards compatibility as an argument point for AMD. When that is thrown out the window, you can be sure that they will receive fire for that.)

Backwards compatibility is nice to a degree, but I think AMD really should move on to a new socket soon.


Steamroller will be a different socket. AM3+ was only meant foe Bulldozer and Piledriver which is a refresh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theamdman View Post

oh, can i copy this from ya?

"Unofficial AMD defender. Keeping the faith until Piledriver hits."

Welcome to the cause. wink.gif


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Edited by MacLeod - 4/26/12 at 6:09am
post #272 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tslm View Post


Umm what? Llano doesn't have Bulldozer cores in it so yeah that'd be a pretty dumb thing to say.

But Trinity has 2 Piledriver modules in it. Explain to me how it's unreasonable to assume Trinity's CPU performance won't be indicative of what we'll be seeing in a few months?

the APU series have serious performance losses over the same cpu generation.
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post #273 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd 
the APU series have serious performance losses over the same cpu generation.

Do they?... I'm not sure about that -- desktop Llano (A8-3850 for example) uses the same cores as the Athlon II, but with a 32nm shrink and an L2 cache boost, among other minor tweaks -- and performs just slightly better than the standard Athlon II x4 processors do. That would be right in line with the tweaks that were made. The memory bandwidth definitely took a hit as the CPU shares memory with the GPU, but this was reversed with Llano's 1866MHz DDR3 support and actually gives Llano better memory bandwidth instead. (Edit: scratch that, looks about equal.) Some other comparative CPU benchmarks here.

With Piledriver and Trinity both presumably supporting DDR3-2133 though, Trinity will likely show a slight reduction in CPU performance, but only in games when the APU is actively accessing RAM... or at least if history repeats itself. smile.gif
Edited by computerdr - 4/26/12 at 7:21am
post #274 of 627
True, and also remember APU's have to be energy sippers because a lot of them are aimed at laptops and you don't want a 140 watt beast sucking the battery life down to 15 minutes. So by making energy efficiency a major point, that's gonna be at the cost of some speed.

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post #275 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerdr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd 
the APU series have serious performance losses over the same cpu generation.

Do they?... I'm not so sure about that -- desktop Llano (A8-3850 for example) uses the exact same cores as the Athlon II, but with a 32nm shrink and an L2 cache boost, among other minor tweaks -- and performs just slightly better than the standard Athlon II x4 processors do. That would be right in line with the tweaks that were made. The memory bandwidth definitely took a hit as the CPU shares memory with the GPU, but this was reversed with Llano's 1866MHz DDR3 support and actually gives Llano better memory bandwidth instead. Some other comparative CPU benchmarks here.

With Piledriver and Trinity both presumably supporting DDR3-2133 though, Trinity will likely show a slight reduction in CPU performance, but only in games when the APU is actively accessing RAM. smile.gif

since it is lined up with Phenom II CPU's, not Athlon II, they do not perform up to standards as CPU's
also whats the point of an APU if not for the use of the GPU?
why, when llano was released, January of 2011, long after the 4/27/11 release of thuban CPU's, would you compare them to Athlon II's?
you should compare them to Phenom II's, as you should expect that the CPU's being released after trinity to have performance gains over trinity.
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post #276 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

Trinity and Vishera are 2 totally different things. One is meant to work as a CPU/graphics combo that uses little energy. Vishera is a desktop high end processor. You can't really look at Trinity and say what Piledriver will do because they're designed to do different things.

You can compare them because they use the same architecture and the same cores. Just like mobile SB parts have the same cores as SB-E does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

the APU series have serious performance losses over the same cpu generation.

Trinity and Piledriver use the same cores. This is completely different compared to the current situation with BD and Llano.
 
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post #277 of 627
the base cores can and are tweaked quite heavily to get different products. thats how you get athlon II x2, x3, x4, and phenom II x2, x3, and x4 out of the same base architecture.
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post #278 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

Trinity and Vishera are 2 totally different things. One is meant to work as a CPU/graphics combo that uses little energy. Vishera is a desktop high end processor. You can't really look at Trinity and say what Piledriver will do because they're designed to do different things.

You can compare them because they use the same architecture and the same cores. Just like mobile SB parts have the same cores as SB-E does.

Its not the same. APU's are aiming for laptop performance and use and have to worry about energy efficiency and working in combo with a IGPU. Desktop procs don't have to worry about these things. Sandy Bridge and Sandy Bridge-E are both performance desktop processors. Trinity and Piledriver are 2 different types. Its like comparing a Chevy pickup with a Chevy compact car. One is meant for hauling and has lots of power. The other is meant for efficiency. They're designed and built with 2 totally different goals in mind so you can't say that because Chevy's new compact car doesn't have more power than last year's model that their new pickup won't either.



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post #279 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

Its not the same. APU's are aiming for laptop performance and use and have to worry about energy efficiency and working in combo with a IGPU. Desktop procs don't have to worry about these things. Sandy Bridge and Sandy Bridge-E are both performance desktop processors. Trinity and Piledriver are 2 different types. Its like comparing a Chevy pickup with a Chevy compact car. One is meant for hauling and has lots of power. The other is meant for efficiency. They're designed and built with 2 totally different goals in mind so you can't say that because Chevy's new compact car doesn't have more power than last year's model that their new pickup won't either.
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SB is as much a desktop CPU as Llano is. Both are designed to work well with igps and scale well to lower end systems and mobile space.
 
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post #280 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

since it is lined up with Phenom II CPU's, not Athlon II, they do not perform up to standards as CPU's ...
why, when llano was released, January of 2011, long after the 4/27/11 release of thuban CPU's, would you compare them to Athlon II's?
The point I was making is that Llano is based on Athlon II architecture with a few tweaks, and therefore we can see that it performs slightly faster.

On that note, because Trinity is based on Piledriver architecture, we can also expect it to perform similarly. A quick Google search shows Trinity has no L3 cache, so we can expect a small hit there, but yes, it is fair to say that we can make an inference at Piledriver's performance based on Trinity's performance. wink.gif (instead of being slightly faster like in Llano's case, it will be the opposite... at least, in theory.)
Edited by computerdr - 4/26/12 at 8:10am
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