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post #71 of 627
Hypertransport is a point to point bus, it has nothing to do with how the CPU works.

A 4 core i7 with SMT (2600k) is not 'an 8 core cpu', It is a 4 core CPU with 8 execution threads. Yes, this helps somewhat where programs are heavily threaded. NO- it doesn't make a lick of real world difference in anything that doesn't use 8 threads, because those 8 threads share the physical resources of 4 cores.

A 8 core BD with CMT (8150) is not 'a 4 core cpu with hyperthreading' it has 8 PHYSICAL cores, but between them, they share 4 PHYSICAL FP units. CMT is better than Hyper Threading, but worse than independant threading.

Tl;dr - 8 Cores > 8 CMT cores > 8 HyperThread "cores"

Also: nowhere in CMT/SMT are there any solid means of load balacing- that's something we're stuck with software developers fixing, by making more stuff support more cores/threads.
    
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post #72 of 627
same old problem enignners and programers not on the same page and we the consumer are stuck in the middle
post #73 of 627
If you are paying less than $140 for a chip dont expect it to be great, theres a reason why they are budget chips.
post #74 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by mezmenir View Post

Also: nowhere in CMT/SMT are there any solid means of load balacing- that's something we're stuck with software developers fixing, by making more stuff support more cores/threads.

Unfortunately, thread does not scale linearly. Amdahl's law tells us that there is a performance limitation to parallel computation. Few games and applications have the potential to take advantage of more than 2 threads, never mind 8 threads. Think of this as a store checkout line. You can have a sales person in the checkout line doing both scanning and bagging. Add another person and you have a sales person scanning the item while another sales person bagging the merchandise to speed up the process. But adding another sales person to the line isn't going to help, in fact the third person might get in the way.
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post #75 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

Unfortunately, thread does not scale linearly. Amdahl's law tells us that there is a performance limitation to parallel computation. Few games and applications have the potential to take advantage of more than 2 threads, never mind 8 threads. Think of this as a store checkout line. You can have a sales person in the checkout line doing both scanning and bagging. Add another person and you have a sales person scanning the item while another sales person bagging the merchandise to speed up the process. But adding another sales person to the line isn't going to help, in fact the third person might get in the way.

I wasn't comparing any specific processor or game/application. It just grates on my nerves over the whole "i7 = 8 cores" and "bd is actually a quad" thing. I have a general understanding of how threading works- and why if you game you pick Intel; or if your into parallel processing you pick.. well- AMD Interlagos.
    
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post #76 of 627
benchmarks used to gauge "performance" are rigged,
my advise is if you base your purchase on benchmarks, please buy intel.

http://altfx.weebly.com
Quote:
amd tried working w/ bentmark devs, but quit BapCo due to unfair intel bias in points-scoring:
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/06/20/nvidia-amd-and-via-quit-bapco-over-sysmark-2012/

see also nigel dessau blog: http://blogs.amd.com/nigel-dessau/2011/06/21/1006/

bapco criminals/deceivers: http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=137432&p=185369#p185307

intel compiler uses suboptimal code paths resulting in poor performance on non-intel cpu:
http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49#49

even to this day, after antitrust settlement, intel compiler still will use suboptimal code-path if cpuid!=genuineintel
http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49#127
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=532&t=138574&p=204319#p204281

see montarayjack's comment for ICC12: http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=532&t=138786p210722

compiler smackdown, ICC regresses in performance from ver10 to ver11, gets beat by LLVM.
http://multimedia.cx/eggs/compiler-smackdown-2010-1-64-bit/

Cinebench 11.5 has cpuid check, likely uses sub-optimal code path for amd:
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=532&t=138786p210650

Cinebench 11.5 is optimized for intel uarch:
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/wuttzi/Snapbucket/CB115.png

crysis2 excessive tessellation to favor nV: http://techreport.com/articles.x/21404/1

software optimization goes beyond using a biased compiler, it also involves memory management, cache strategy, algorithms, data structures, etc...
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=532&t=138786p210572

even athlon is better than core i7-nehalem in integer toom multiplication:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toom–Cook_multiplication
http://gmplib.org/devel/
"FFT takes over for larger operands for machines with faster hardware multiplication. AMD's processors have great hardware multiplication, Intel's Nehalem's multiplication has twice Athlon's latency, and the venerable Pentium 4 has really poor hardware multiplication."
post #77 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by mezmenir View Post

Hypertransport is a point to point bus, it has nothing to do with how the CPU works.
A 4 core i7 with SMT (2600k) is not 'an 8 core cpu', It is a 4 core CPU with 8 execution threads. Yes, this helps somewhat where programs are heavily threaded. NO- it doesn't make a lick of real world difference in anything that doesn't use 8 threads, because those 8 threads share the physical resources of 4 cores.
A 8 core BD with CMT (8150) is not 'a 4 core cpu with hyperthreading' it has 8 PHYSICAL cores, but between them, they share 4 PHYSICAL FP units. CMT is better than Hyper Threading, but worse than independant threading.
Tl;dr - 8 Cores > 8 CMT cores > 8 HyperThread "cores"
Also: nowhere in CMT/SMT are there any solid means of load balacing- that's something we're stuck with software developers fixing, by making more stuff support more cores/threads.

u sure seem to know ya stuff ty for bringing us some great info
post #78 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by zantuz View Post

I hoppe so, i´m very angry with the FX cpu´s...is not what i expected.

Maybe FX was not what anyone expected or hoped for, this may be true. But I look at it this way. It is still a capable chip in its own right and I am milking this baby for what it's worth. It's just not as capable as other chips - granted. So, what to do? Easy.

I too went and got an FX-8120. Now that I have it, I am learning all I can about OC'ing this sucker. Trust me... it OC's way differently than previous generations of AMD chips. I am no longer looking to "compete" with Intel or even previous AMD generation chips anymore. I only look at getting the most I can out of what I have. Why you may ask? Simple... As I understand it Piledriver will be based on Bulldozer. If I get to really know my FX chip and it's capabilities, I suspect that I will have a running start in understanding how to OC the Piledriver's when they come out. So in essence I am looking at FX as my "OC'ing boot camp" for Piledriver. So, with this in mind, have I wasted money? Not at all!

BTW... all companies have their up's and down's. I have read dozens of posts of Sandy Bridge owners not as enthusiastic about Ivy Bridge.

When Piledriver comes out, I am taking this FX chip and building the wife her own rig with it. She only needs the rig to do the family accounting stuff, some e-mails and daily simple stuff like that. No gaming. No video editing. Nada... So, do I need to go out and get her an expensive Intel chipped based computer for her purposes? Nope. Hell, I may even turn this FX chip into an HTPC rig!!! Plenty of uses as far as I can see for a chip that turned out to not be what everyone expected. Investment is secured one way or another.
post #79 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahbrohn View Post

Maybe FX was not what anyone expected or hoped for, this may be true. But I look at it this way. It is still a capable chip in its own right and I am milking this baby for what it's worth. It's just not as capable as other chips - granted. So, what to do? Easy.
I too went and got an FX-8120. Now that I have it, I am learning all I can about OC'ing this sucker. Trust me... it OC's way differently than previous generations of AMD chips. I am no longer looking to "compete" with Intel or even previous AMD generation chips anymore. I only look at getting the most I can out of what I have. Why you may ask? Simple... As I understand it Piledriver will be based on Bulldozer. If I get to really know my FX chip and it's capabilities, I suspect that I will have a running start in understanding how to OC the Piledriver's when they come out. So in essence I am looking at FX as my "OC'ing boot camp" for Piledriver. So, with this in mind, have I wasted money? Not at all!
BTW... all companies have their up's and down's. I have read dozens of posts of Sandy Bridge owners not as enthusiastic about Ivy Bridge.
When Piledriver comes out, I am taking this FX chip and building the wife her own rig with it. She only needs the rig to do the family accounting stuff, some e-mails and daily simple stuff like that. No gaming. No video editing. Nada... So, do I need to go out and get her an expensive Intel chipped based computer for her purposes? Nope. Hell, I may even turn this FX chip into an HTPC rig!!! Plenty of uses as far as I can see for a chip that turned out to not be what everyone expected. Investment is secured one way or another.

same here I am planing on getting a FX 6200 and lean it Ive learn all I can with this 1090T
post #80 of 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesPaulLover View Post

Sure I do.
Why just yesterday I stated that my ****-terrible Thuban handles desktop tasks and surfing the net like a pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesPaulLover View Post

See this is the worst part.
This is what....90%....of the consumer population believes, and as such AMD priced their 8150s significantly HIGHER than 2500ks so that the average consumer would assume them "better" when in reality they're not even close to being EQUAL.

You should hope for all of our sakes (intel and AMD fans alike) that AMD can do well in the market place and in the performance realm. Because if they do throw in the towel, give it ten years and intel will be absolute garbage as well. If nothing is pushing the market then everyone suffers. Intel prices will go through the roof and their quality will slowly degrade, and the rate at which their product performance increases will slow to a crawl. Its a lose-lose for all.
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