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CPU degredation, what exactly happens? - Page 2

post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsparky32 View Post

Throttling down will save the CPU for a much longer period of time.
Also, voltage does not kill CPU's. there is no such thing as "too high" ..temperature AND voltage kills cpu's. Lets say for example you have a phase change cooling set up. those are good for about 15f temps at load. you could easily run 1.5-1.55v 24/7, because the CPU is cold enough that the electrons arent jumping around and destroying the CPU. if you ran it on air it would be possible, but it would degrade very very quickly.
generally on air and conventional watercooling setups, 1.35-1.45 is the general rule of thumb for a safe operating voltage (for Intel). Also, the colder you go, the more stable the CPU will be at higher clocks. thats why dry ice and liquid nitrogen is used for extreme overclocking

One thing Ive always wondered about Liquid Nitrogen cooling, wouldn't that cause the metal components of the chip to become brittle and fail? I mean, I know that the cooler the better, but there is a lower limit before the cold causes stress issues to the metal.
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post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarok05 View Post

One thing Ive always wondered about Liquid Nitrogen cooling, wouldn't that cause the metal components of the chip to become brittle and fail? I mean, I know that the cooler the better, but there is a lower limit before the cold causes stress issues to the metal.

Thats why liquid nitrogen is only used as temporary cooling wink.gif also its silicon, not metal, and the IHS just protects the actual die/chip from warping.
 
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post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsparky32 View Post

Thats why liquid nitrogen is only used as temporary cooling wink.gif also its silicon, not metal, and the IHS just protects the actual die/chip from warping.

Ah I see.

Im guessing the IHS is the metal plate on the top of the CPU, where the cooler is placed?
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post #14 of 24
Every cpu degrades over time, because of heat especially. Now when you overclock you are just speeding up the degration process but not by much.
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post #15 of 24
Degradation from electormigration always occurs at any voltage or temperature. It just occurs more rapidly at higher temperatures or voltages. The processors are designed such that if they are kept within their specified operating voltages and temperatures, the processor will last for its specified lifetime without issues.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarok05 View Post

Ah I see.
Im guessing the IHS is the metal plate on the top of the CPU, where the cooler is placed?
You'd be correct. Intel introduced the IHS after the pentium 3 had issues with warping and breaking in half after a cooler was placed on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Degradation from electormigration always occurs at any voltage or temperature. It just occurs more rapidly at higher temperatures or voltages. The processors are designed such that if they are kept within their specified operating voltages and temperatures, the processor will last for its specified lifetime without issues.

what? no. lol. electron migration occurs when the actual chip gets too hot and the electrons get all shaken up and start moving. it dosent happen when your cpu is idling at 1.6ghz at the desktop. rolleyes.gif
 
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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsparky32 View Post

You'd be correct. Intel introduced the IHS after the pentium 3 had issues with warping and breaking in half after a cooler was placed on it.
what? no. lol. electron migration occurs when the actual chip gets too hot and the electrons get all shaken up and start moving. it dosent happen when your cpu is idling at 1.6ghz at the desktop. rolleyes.gif

No, that is not correct. Electromigration occurs from the electrons flowing as current through the conductors in the chip. The electrons collide with the atoms in the conductor lattice, sometimes with enough energy to knock them loose. The higher the current density (and voltage), the more likely the atoms will get dislodged by the electronic current. How temperature comes into play has nothing to do with the elections, but the atoms in the lattice. The higher the temperature, the more the metallic atoms vibrate, and the more loosely they are bound to the lattice so they are easier to knock out. The mean time between failure due to electromigration depends exponentially on the temperature and quadratically on the current density (Black's equation). Changes in temperature can have a larger effect than changes in voltage. However there are other voltage related effects that can occur at high voltages.

And it does happen @ 1.6 GHz - it happens whenever there is current flowing through the chip. LOL.
Edited by GeneO - 4/21/12 at 12:05am
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

No, that is not correct. Electromigration occurs from the electrons flowing as current through the conductors in the chip. The electrons collide with the atoms in the conductor lattice, sometimes with enough energy to knock them loose. The higher the current density (and voltage), the more likely the atoms will get dislodged by the electronic current. How temperature comes into play has nothing to do with the elections, but the atoms in the lattice. The higher the temperature, the more the metallic atoms vibrate, and the more loosely they are bound to the lattice so they are easier to knock out. The mean time between failure due to electromigration depends exponentially on the temperature and quadratically on the current density (Black's equation). Changes in temperature can have a larger effect than changes in voltage. However there are other voltage related effects that can occur at high voltages.
And it does happen @ 1.6 GHz - it happens whenever there is current flowing through the chip. LOL.

I'm sure you just got all of that from wikipedia and google. if it happened at 1.6GHz and 0.9v then i guess my 990X is degrading right as we speak. the only way electron migration occurs is if the voltage is too high and the temperature is too high. you are deluded if you think it happens at a 1.6ghz/0.9v
 
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post #19 of 24
Essentially increasing entropy through direct factors such as voltage and indirectly through temperature. Effects of such can be skewed, due to the microscopic interactions of a what is expected of classical physics principles.
Edited by Blindrage606 - 4/21/12 at 12:16am
 
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post #20 of 24
I have a doctorate in physics, what's your excuse?

Yes your processor is degrading as we speak. So is mine. But it degrades at a slow enough rate that it can function properly for many years if you don't push it too far. It takes a lot of dislodged atoms to make the conductors (mostly at material junctions) loose their conductive path or for the conductive debris to short to adjacent components. It happens whenever there is a current flowing through your processor. It just happens at a low enough rate that your processor will last quite a long time before the damage is felt - as long as you keep the temperature and voltage low enough. The processors are designed with this in mind. However if you start running at higher voltages r temperatures that are out of spec, you accelerate this process and reduce the lifetime of your processor below its designed lifetime.

Wikipedia probably has some good material on electromigration, you should read it instead of attempting to use it to taunt.
Edited by GeneO - 4/21/12 at 12:25am
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