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post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

They are still an innovator.
Cooler Master TPC 812: "The first ever CPU heatsink to utilize Vertical Vapor Chamber cooling and combine it with heat pipe technology, TPC 812 is prepared to handle the massive heat generated by overclocking and benchmarking. Vertical Vapor Chamber working in tandem with heat pipes and a specialized heatsink and fin design allow the TPC 812 to outperform the competition."
And to be sure that I am not just putting up marketing material... From Pro-Clockers review of the TPC 812: "Cooler Master is going back to the original concept of outperforming the next cooler." and the final thoughts "We found that the Cooler Master TPC 812 is one heck of a cooler. Due to the change in platforms we were only able to put the new cooler up against one other cooler. But that cooler used two 120mm fans and was able to take it down. And another plus while achieving this is the cooler remained quiet. Making it one of the best noise-versus-performance we ever tested. The ideal of using the dual thermal cooling solutions was a good one as it performed like advertised. The Cooler Master TPC 812 cooler will retail for $69.99 once in stores. I like the cooler in this price range as the performance I good to great. And won’t break the bank of most that are out to buy a better cooler."
Tech PowerUP said: "After releasing the world's first heatpipe heatsink in 2000, Cooler Master announces that it will begin to phase in Vertical Vapor Chamber technology into its upcoming retail CPU heatsinks; a technology initially developed by Cooler Master's OEM and industrial cooling division. Vertical Vapor Chambers feature less than half the air resistance by reducing airflow vortexes and noise generated by air streaming through a heatsink. At the same time vertical vapor chambers exhibit 3 times the fin contact area, enabling faster and more efficient transfer of heat from the vapor chambers to the fins, and overall more efficient use of the available fin surface area."

I actually played with a TPC 821 last week, it's a solid cooler(something new from Cooler Master) but it's not a high end part, it can't compete with the massive twin tower designs from the likes of Panteks, Thermalright, Noctua, Prolimatech, etc... but joining the pack is not innovation... innovation it's a leap.
I've seen "innovative" designs of all sorts... from the single 2.5cm heatpipe used by Titan, to the perpendicularly stacked heatpipes from Scythe(Ninja).. and I wonder what kind of brain dead earhtworms bring this kind of thrash to market and pair them with adjectives like "innovative" or "unique" since they offer nothing over widely used, cheaper, "classic" designs.
Edited by Original Sin - 4/22/12 at 2:40pm
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

I actually played with a TPC 821 last week, it's a solid cooler(something new from Cooler Master) but it's not a high end part, it can't compete with the massive twin tower designs from the likes of Panteks, Thermalright, Noctua, Prolimatech, etc... but joining the pack is not innovation... innovation it's a leap.
I've seen "innovative" designs of all sorts... from the single 2.5" heatpipe used by Titan, to the perpendicularly stacked heatpipes from Scythe(Ninja).. and I wonder what kind of brain dead earhtworms bring this kind of thrash to market and pair them with adjectives like "innovative" or "unique" since they offer nothing over widely used, cheaper, "classic" designs.

Innovation doesn't mean being the best. Innovation is bringing fresh ideas. Vertical vapor chambers are innovation.

I read a review for a cooler that was almost a carbon copy of the Noctua NH-14, and it managed to wring an additional degree or two out of teh design. Is that innovation? No, not really, just a more perfect design than Noctua provides.

Also, to be clear, i am not debating if Cooler Master is the best. The best is situational, depending on what limitations and qualifiers you add to the moment. No, I am debating that Cooler Master does innovate, still to this day. Also, I am debating that the Hyper 212 isn't "trash because it's a cheap, inefficient HDT solution". All the reviews that I have read on the Hyper 212 coolers have said they are good coolers, and they provide the best efficiency per dollar... and they perform well in general.
Edited by ./Cy4n1d3\. - 4/22/12 at 2:46pm
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Innovation doesn't mean being the best. Innovation is bringing fresh ideas. Vertical vapor chambers are innovation.
Vapor chambers are nothing new, and nothing more than oversized, rectangular heatpipes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

I read a review for a cooler that was almost a carbon copy of the Noctua NH-14, and it managed to wring an additional degree or two out of teh design. Is that innovation? No, not really, just a more perfect design than Noctua provides.
It's a Phanteks PH-TC14PE, it's larger, has a slightly better base and it comes with better fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Also, to be clear, i am not debating if Cooler Master is the best. The best is situational, depending on what limitations and qualifiers you add to the moment. No, I am debating that Cooler Master does innovate, still to this day. Also, I am debating that the Hyper 212 isn't "trash because it's a cheap, inefficient HDT solution". All the reviews that I have read on the Hyper 212 coolers have said they are good coolers, and they provide the best efficiency per dollar... and they perform well in general.
So based on that you decided to step in and sort me out, being appalled by my apparently senseless, inane rant against Cooler Master, not the 212, but Cooler Master... you proceeded to copy paste some marketing rants you understand little about and hit me hard with a MaximumPC review of the 212, a review as "kick ass" as the cooler smile.gif... to hell with thermodynamics, I have absolutely no clue what the heat transfer coefficient is and I don't really care, and convection sounds gay anyway... I say it's "kick ass"

Here's a proper cooler review, there's a 212+ in there too... and please, grow a brain.
post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

Vapor chambers are nothing new, and nothing more than oversized, rectangular heatpipes.
It's a Phanteks PH-TC14PE, it's larger, has a slightly better base and it comes with better fans.
So based on that you decided to step in and sort me out, being appalled by my apparently senseless, inane rant against Cooler Master, not the 212, but Cooler Master... you proceeded to copy paste some marketing rants you understand little about and hit me hard with a MaximumPC review of the 212, a review as "kick ass" as the cooler smile.gif... to hell with thermodynamics, I have absolutely no clue what the heat transfer coefficient is and I don't really care, and convection sounds gay anyway... I say it's "kick ass"
Here's a proper cooler review, there's a 212+ in there too... and please, grow a brain.

Let's see, obscure Romanian website, or MaximumPC (a segment of FutureUS, who also publish PC Gamer).. hard choice. Who to believe, the company that gets early exclusive looks at many products (like the Cosmos II in the newest Dream machine, or the Blackbird for the... dream machine.), or the company that... doesn't.

Basically, you quoted one website that refutes thousands of other websites that say that they Hyper 212 is a good cooler. You said it was "trash because it's a cheap, inefficient HDT solution". Well, what if somebody doesn't want to spend $100 on a cooler? Maybe being one of the best cheap heatsinks (that can compete against some higher priced ones) is good enough?

Also, you never qualified in what way the 212 was inefficient. If you look at performance/ dollars, it is efficient.
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Let's see, obscure Romanian website, or MaximumPC (a segment of FutureUS, who also publish PC Gamer).. hard choice. Who to believe, the company that gets early exclusive looks at many products (like the Cosmos II in the newest Dream machine, or the Blackbird for the... dream machine.), or the company that... doesn't.
You could like... use your head?.. just a though... maybe look at the methodology, and try to understand what each review tries to point out and emphasize... stupid stuff like heat transfer(the base type, quality, the retention mechanism, the pressure), heat dissipation parameters(fin surface, density, etc) and how well it scales in relation to airlow, static pressure, voltage and generated heat.... I don't know... I'd say "kick ass" wins, right?

ps. since you know nothing about the reviewers in question, you should probably hold on judgement calls... obscure?.. your ignorance is overwhelming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Basically, you quoted one website that refutes thousands of other websites that say that they Hyper 212 is a good cooler. You said it was "trash because it's a cheap, inefficient HDT solution". Well, what if somebody doesn't want to spend $100 on a cooler? Maybe being one of the best cheap heatsinks (that can compete against some higher priced ones) is good enough?
That's not the only source with a poor verdict for the 212+, I linked them because their methodology is excellent, it's one of the best(if not the best) air cooler/heat sink review site on the web.... but even if it was the single source who trashed the 212+, your argument is based on flawed logic... since when does "many" = "better' or "true"!??.. are you that.. slow?
And no it can't compete, not where it matters... high overclocks, high TDP... for stock clocks and low TDP scenarios it's irrelevant.. it's competing with a stock cooler that came for "free".
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Also, you never qualified in what way the 212 was inefficient. If you look at performance/ dollars, it is efficient.
What performance?... cooling performance?.. there's no such thing for the 212+... it's cheap for a reason.
Edited by Original Sin - 4/22/12 at 4:03pm
post #26 of 40
Anything by Enermax .The End.

Also, huge lols at the above ^^.
Edited by lowfiwhiteguy - 4/22/12 at 4:20pm
Óðinn
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CoolerMaster | HAF X | 
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Óðinn
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
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post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfiwhiteguy View Post

Anything by Enermax .The End.
Also, huge lols at the above ^^.

Anything by Enermax, including the overpriced low-end units built by CWT, Highpower, and FSP? Including the old NAXN non-80PLUS units that were overrated CWT PUF units that literally offered nothing over $15 unbranded garbage and exploded when loaded past 200W? And were sold under the pretense of being made by Enermax themselves? And which Enermax continued to make and sell, in the full knowledge of those units being garbage, up until the very last day that CWT manufactured that design, changing it only when forced to?

Enermax has some good engineers, but they're not perfect. Their high end units can be great, but their low end has been made by other ODMs for over five years now, and those units haven't always been squeaky clean and perfect.
post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

You could like... use your head?.. just a though... maybe look at the methodology, and try to understand what each review tries to point out and emphasize... stupid stuff like heat transfer(the base type, quality, the retention mechanism, the pressure), heat dissipation parameters(fin surface, density, etc) and how well it scales in relation to airlow, static pressure, voltage and generated heat.... I don't know... I'd say "kick ass" wins, right?

So, because the heatsink could have been better if they had listened to this reviewer, but it isn't, but it does a good job at cooling, it still sucks because they don't listen to some romanian website content writer?

Also, do any of these other things matter if the heatsink does a good job? Does it matter at all to the end consumer if the product works as intended? I can assure you, it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

ps. since you know nothing about the reviewers in question, you should probably hold on judgement calls... obscure?.. your ignorance is overwhelming.
That's not the only source with a poor verdict for the 212+, I linked them because their methodology is excellent, it's one of the best(if not the best) air cooler/heat sink review sites on the web.... but even if it was the single source who trashed the 212+, your argument is based on flawed logic... since when does "many" = "better' or "true"!??.. are you that.. slow?

Well, "my ignorance" is not of question, just when I google "cpu cooler reviews" they never come up, so Google must not care about them.

Also, when the majority of the review sites say it is one of teh best for the money, and the end users think it does exactly what they want for the price they wish to pay, how does a dissenting minority mean that it sucks? You talk about logic, but the same argument you try to throw in my face can be thrown back in yours with a lot more weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

And no it can't compete, not where it matters... high overclocks, high TDP... for stock clocks and low TDP scenarios it's irrelevant.. it's competing with a stock cooler that came for "free".
What performance?... cooling performance?.. there's no such thing for the 212+... it's cheap for a reason.

Yes, it is cheap for a reason. That reason is that not everybody wants to spend $75 on a "innovative" cooler that doesn't "suck". It does the job as good as one would think a cheap cooler should perform, and in fact most people would say it does it a lot better than expected.

We could be done with this if you admit that 1. Cooler Master continues to innovate and that 2. The Hyper 212+ and Evo aren't "trash" coolers for the price.
Edited by ./Cy4n1d3\. - 4/22/12 at 8:45pm
post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post

Anything by Enermax, including the overpriced low-end units built by CWT, Highpower, and FSP? Including the old NAXN non-80PLUS units that were overrated CWT PUF units that literally offered nothing over $15 unbranded garbage and exploded when loaded past 200W? And were sold under the pretense of being made by Enermax themselves? And which Enermax continued to make and sell, in the full knowledge of those units being garbage, up until the very last day that CWT manufactured that design, changing it only when forced to?
Enermax has some good engineers, but they're not perfect. Their high end units can be great, but their low end has been made by other ODMs for over five years now, and those units haven't always been squeaky clean and perfect.

Holy crap I did not know that. My buds and I all have MODU 87+'s and a Revo and we're amazed with them but I didn't know they cut corners like that. Retracted!
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
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| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
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| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
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Óðinn
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CoolerMaster | HAF X | 
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post #30 of 40
Thread Starter 
Guys please, i appreciate all your inputs, but this aint the place (psu forum) to be debating over coolers ?? im needing advice on psu around the 50gbp mark - (if i need to add 15 or so quid then so be it, thats fine, but the more i spend on such and such the less i can in the end spend on a graphics card.

Thanks for your input lads thumb.gif

Anyways can you continue (if needs must) this debate in my cooler post

http://www.overclock.net/t/1246024/space-for-cooler

regards
paul
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