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New Roccat Savu optical mouse. - Page 30

post #291 of 705
Picked up one of these today, as I needed a new mouse and from looking at the selection of mice with "perfect" sensors, this seemed like the best choice that wasn't a DeathAdder (last one broke within 18 months and no Razer mice have lasted me very long) or an MX518/G400. (had even less reliability from Logitech products, and they never fit my hand right)

Build quality seems solid - at least as solid as you can realistically expect from a lightweight plastic mouse. (unlike something metal that weighs considerably more) When I say lightweight, that is not being derisive though - it's a good thing.

The cable seems somewhat more flexible than the DeathAdder's, though it's still relatively stiff as it's braided. Shouldn't be a problem once I fix it to my desk with a cable tie + mount though. (too bad wireless mice are still a compromise...)

Switches on the mice seem well chosen. They aren't quite the hair trigger of Razer's mice, but don't require too much force like many Logitech mice I have used.

The wheel is great. Very solid detents, and a good rubber grip. (I dislike Logitech's where the surface has grooves about 1mm apart) I wouldn't call it stiff at all, it's just not going to move unless you want it to. B etter than the DeathAdder has. It's definitely going to start squeaking though. If I scroll with a light touch, rather than keeping my finger on it, I can already make it squeak if I scroll quickly. It seems like this is something you will just have to learn to put up with if you buy a gaming mouse, rather than a general-use mouse where the wheel can move much more freely.

The side coating is nice. It seems a little too coarse when you take the mouse out of the box, but I wouldn't call it a "sandpaper" texture, and after using it a few hours now, it's already smoothed down just enough that it's comfortable, but still providing a good grip. Not sure about the soft-touch coating on top though. It's nice, but they have a tendency to wear off, collect dust, or look greasy over time.

I like the LED implementation. I generally hate mice with LEDs in them - especially if there's a LED at the wheel. This is fairly subtle, you can dim it, and it's almost completely hidden when you actually use the mouse, which is a good thing in my opinion. When I'm gaming my attention should be on the screen, not an LED in the corner of my eye. As raisinbun mentioned though, the LEDs aren't calibrated which is good for getting the most brightness out of them (and they can go very bright) but not so useful if you want a specific colour. I'm fortunate to have the equipment required to actually measure and calibrate the LEDs myself though. (spectrophotometer) One suggestion I would make to the Roccat team is to stop the LEDs turning off when in the breathing mode. It looks better when they fade down to a dim level and back up, than completely off in my opinion... but I'm not going to use that feature anyway. (maybe an option to have it start "breathing" when idle for a minute would be good?)

Tracking seems good. Using 1600 CPI at 500Hz, it appears to track smoother and with less jitter than my DeathAdder did - at least that's my first impression of it from the limited time I've had to use the mouse. I am potentially seeing some jitter at slow movement speeds, though it may be the mousepad I'm currently using. (temporarily using a free one I had lying around until I decide what to get) It may also be the system I'm using though - I'm currently using a very old CoreDuo Intel Mac while waiting on a replacement motherboard for my PC, and none of the mice I used on it tracked 100% smoothly.


Now for the bad... this is not a medium-sized mouse. At least I certainly wouldn't call it that - I would say the DeathAdder is a medium sized mouse. The DeathAdder fit my hand reasonably well, but the hair-trigger buttons didn't really allow you to palm it. This is a small mouse. Maybe I just have giant hands and never realised it before, but there's no way I can palm the mouse and use it comfortably. The flatter profile combined with the grip that the shape of the mouse forces you into means I have about 2" of my palm that is completely unsupported by the mouse:

ryZ3ds.jpg

Because the right-hand-side of the mouse is concave rather than convex, it makes the mouse very narrow to grip, and I get the feeling it's going to end up being painful to use all day. It's far more comfortable for me to use my middle finger on the right-mouse button rather than my ring finger, and keep my little finger off it entirely.

This is a fingertip (and maybe claw grip?) mouse, not a palm-grip mouse.


Another drawback: there are no Mac drivers at all. I didn't even think to check that when buying the mouse, because why wouldn't there be Mac drivers in 2012?
Fortunately, I was able to install the drivers and update the mouse via Parallels and it remembered my settings, but that's hardly ideal.
The upside is that I now know I will be able to use the mouse completely driverless from now on, unless I want to change the LED colour or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raisinbun View Post

My biggest gripe is the LED. I know that many here deem LED a useless function, but it is important for me because I so often looked at it to appreciate the beauty of Savu rolleyes.gif
Savu's LED, while advertised to be customizable in 16.8million colours, is not calibrated at all. I mean, the intensity of R, G and B are certainly different and when I customize the LED to 255 255 255, the resulting color is a strong shade of bluish purple and far from white. To get closer to white, I actually set it to 80 255 24. This is how uncalibrated the LED is.
While there is probably some variance between the LEDs used, I measured mine.

Here is the full gamut covered by the LEDs, and the spectrum:
gamutisza5.png spectrumf4ar9.png

As you can see, the blue and red LEDs have significantly more power than the green LED.

To get "pure" white (D65) set the LEDs to: 44, 255, 20
To get pure white at a low brightness, set the LEDs to: 17, 64, 10
post #292 of 705
Quote:
Switches on the mice seem well chosen. They aren't quite the hair trigger of Razer's mice, but don't require too much force like many Logitech mice I have used.

A combination of applied industrial design paired with a specific batch of standard Omron D2FC ^^
post #293 of 705
Agree with you about the shape, couldn't palm grip it and the overzealous thumb groove made it too narrow to hold comfortably with any style of grip I tried to use.

I'm a righty, but oddly found the mouse much more comfortable/natural to hold using my left hand. The shape is pretty fail and over engineered imo.

Back on the abyssus now, roll on bst's mouse!
post #294 of 705
NotAgain,

Do you think a person could learn to grip this mouse though? Coming from a laptop. XD


What about any one else, could a person learn to grip this?
post #295 of 705
Hello BluephoneixHd,

My opinion is, yes you can learn to grip this mouse There's some people on the forum who claw it and finger grip it, so it's just a matter of time to get used to it smile.gif
I don't have big hands, from my middle finger to palm is 17.5cm\6.9 inches, and i could palm grip it.
First it's kind of weird because you're ring finger stays on top of the mouse, (on top of the "fake" mouse button") and your pinky stays on the right side. i think as someone said before (Thanks Dems for your experienced oppinion wink.gif ) a new mouse does take some time to feel comfortable. ( FIY http://www.overclock.net/t/1247825/new-roccat-savu-optical-mouse/140).
For some reason Deathadder was my favourite mouse, but for the last 3 days i can't grip it anymore as i used to, my ring finger for some reason goes up, so i changed to G400, and so far i'm enjoying it a lot... but enough off topic.
Avinin1, not sure if you remember but you mentioned that the new batches were coming out with a kind of wheel fixed for the squeaking, do you know how to see it?

Thanks in advance
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post #296 of 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAgain View Post

While there is probably some variance between the LEDs used, I measured mine.
Here is the full gamut covered by the LEDs, and the spectrum:
gamutisza5.png spectrumf4ar9.png
As you can see, the blue and red LEDs have significantly more power than the green LED.
To get "pure" white (D65) set the LEDs to: 44, 255, 20
To get pure white at a low brightness, set the LEDs to: 17, 64, 10

Good to have stuff to measure colour spectrum biggrin.gif
Now after three weeks of use, my old "white" value actually gives me a green tint. I can see that the power or blue and red have gone down a bit over time, which is not a good thing to boast of... redface.gif Now to get the same white that I was used to, the values become 100 255 85 rolleyes.gif

I agree with most of your observations of the mouse, except the grip... but I guess everyone grips the mouse differently thumb.gif
post #297 of 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

A combination of applied industrial design paired with a specific batch of standard Omron D2FC ^^
I have to say, having spent more time with it, I am noticing that I'm not able to double-click with the Savu as quickly as I could with the DeathAdder, but I think that's because there isn't any "bounce" in the buttons (because they're better designed/put together) rather than the fact that the DeathAdder needs a lighter touch.

This does let you relax your fingers a bit more though, as you can rest on the buttons without any fear that you are going to click accidentally. I suspect that this also means you won't run into the problem that Razer mice have where the mouse buttons start either not registering clicks, or registering as double-clicks over time.

The wheel now squeaks constantly when scrolling quickly though. It would be fine if I was only using the mouse for gaming and using it to select weapons, but it doesn't seem suited to trying to scroll a web page at all. I had the same problem with my DeathAdder, but it didn't show up there for a while, not the day I bought the mouse. Logitech have the opposite problem where the wheel is just too loose and generally feels crap. It's even worse with ones that offer sideways scrolling or the ability to lock/unlock the wheel. Once I can get back on a PC and can use "scroll a page at a time" it will probably be a lot more tolerable though.

While it may be a more durable mouse design than the DeathAdder, I'm not that impressed with Roccat's quality control, but I do seem to have luck with getting bad hardware, so it's probably not their fault. I've had plenty of hardware from companies like Apple and high-end AV gear with defects out of the box. I had a Pioneer Kuro with almost 20 dead pixels out of the box! My 5-year warrantied "TUF" ASUS Sabertooth P67 motherboard didn't even last 18 months!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluePhoenixHD View Post

NotAgain,
Do you think a person could learn to grip this mouse though? Coming from a laptop. XD
What about any one else, could a person learn to grip this?
Yes, I think the mouse will be a very good fit for some people, and I'm finding it better to use now that I've spent more time with it, it just wasn't at all what I was expecting, especially with it being advertised as a "mid-size" mouse - it's a small mouse. (but not a mobile-sized mouse)

I've switched to using my old Razer Pro|Pad on the speed side now, which I normally found too slick to control well with any mice in the past, and it actually seems to be a very good match for the Savu. Due to the low friction, I can use a more relaxed claw/finger-type grip than I was before because it takes almost no force to move the mouse, unlike that cheap cloth pad I had been using. If you're wondering, the reason I stopped using the Pro|Pad was because the aluminium got far too cold here, and I didn't like the shape of it. (not being rectangular just wastes space) I have an "glass" Artisan pads on the way which I hope will be an even better fit. (low friction with comfort)

Especially if you use your middle finger on the right mouse button rather than your ring finger (keeping your middle on the wheel) I think it can actually be quite comfortable to use, as long as you're on a low friction surface. Normally I dislike using a low friction surface, but something about the Savu design makes it easy to keep the mouse under control on it.


I should point out that I don't normally use a palm grip on mice, but had been trying to recently, as it forces me to keep my wrist straight rather than twisting it sideways, which was a habit I developed using the DeathAdder for some reason. It's not necessarily bad that you can't really use a palm grip on this mouse (unless you have tiny hands) it's just not what I expected. But for whatever reason (perhaps because of the low friction pad) I've noticed that I don't seem to be doing that with the Savu. I've also noticed that even though I'm using the slick speed side of the pad, and even though the Savu buttons require more force, the mouse doesn't move at all when using any of the buttons. With my DeathAdder on the speed side of this pad, it was easy to accidentally move the cursor, especially when trying to click the wheel in. I also had trouble keeping the DeathAdder under control at 1800 CPI on it, and the Savu is fine at 1600. (that's the speed I prefer in games, but I had to use the control side or another pad with the DeathAdder)

Quote:
Originally Posted by raisinbun View Post

Good to have stuff to measure colour spectrum biggrin.gif
Now after three weeks of use, my old "white" value actually gives me a green tint. I can see that the power or blue and red have gone down a bit over time, which is not a good thing to boast of... redface.gif Now to get the same white that I was used to, the values become 100 255 85 rolleyes.gif
I agree with most of your observations of the mouse, except the grip... but I guess everyone grips the mouse differently thumb.gif
That's disappointing, I was hoping that it'd stay roughly the same.

Once it got dark, I found the settings I had previously posted far too bright, and 6, 15, 4 RGB is what my mouse needs for the dimmest pure white light. (D65) Anything lower than that, and you don't have the granularity of control needed to keep it a pure white rather than being tinted.

I've ended up just turning the LED off though. Even with those dim settings it's just distracting, especially if I'm watching a video and not using the mouse. It's good lesson to have learnt now though, as I had been thinking about buying a backlit mechanical keyboard for a while. Now I know it would just annoy the hell out of me - at least if there isn't the option to turn off after 5-10s of inactivity.



So overall I've got mixed feelings about the mouse. After changing the pad I'm using it with, I am a lot happier now, but there was a nick in the plastic on one of the side buttons, and the wheel has started squeaking already. I'm definitely seeing it jump 10px every so often when moving the mouse at low speeds, but I'm hoping that it's an issue with this old Mac I'm stuck using for now, rather than a problem with the mouse. (it probably is - my DeathAdder or another mouse I tried didn't track smoothly either)
Edited by NotAgain - 9/17/12 at 8:07pm
post #298 of 705
Lo Notagain,

Very nice reviews and opinions on this mouse.
One of the main reasons i returned the mouse was the squeaking wheel. I didn't like it. It felt like a cheap mouse, but the rest of the mouse feels very well built.
I'm a cloth user and for some reason LOD was a bit high, so i tape fixed it and it did a huge difference. You should try and gives us your feedback smile.gif
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post #299 of 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakesoul View Post

Lo Notagain,
Very nice reviews and opinions on this mouse.
One of the main reasons i returned the mouse was the squeaking wheel. I didn't like it. It felt like a cheap mouse, but the rest of the mouse feels very well built.
I'm a cloth user and for some reason LOD was a bit high, so i tape fixed it and it did a huge difference. You should try and gives us your feedback smile.gif

Regarding LOD of Savu, I have done some simple tests... and guess what, it has very low LOD on 4HD - less than 2mm
4HD: <2mm
Shidenkai XSoft: <4mm
Steelpad 5L: <4mm
QcK mini: <5mm
Hien Mid: <6mm

I tested with 1mm steps, not very accurate but gives a general idea.
post #300 of 705
Any idea when the new batch of Savu would hit Amazon or Newegg?
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