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post #681 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iketh View Post

there is misinformation all over about offsets... it's like everyone is trying to figure it out and spreading their own theories into the pot despite my efforts to educate
I just made this post yesterday helping someone else. Please refer to it.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1259381/help-with-offset-vcore-2700k-w-maximus-v-gene-5ghz#post_17303044

here is your post ;
Quote:
You must check stability using 1 thread in prime if you're using offsets with c3 and c6 enabled. You also can not use any LLC in this scenario. It's not possible to get it 100% stable unless you severely overvolt during 8-thread loads.

If you have c3 and c6 disabled and still crashing in light loads, then you're using too high LLC. The higher your LLC, the less voltage you receive during workloads that are less demanding than prime (or whatever software you used to verify your overclock.) This is easy to witness for yourself if you pay attention to volts while using any other software that puts a constant load on the CPU. I like to stabilize with prime, then check volts in Handbrake/FaH/WCG and verify the drop isn't too severe. Some droppage is normal and perfectly safe and is one of the advantages of using offsets. Frankly, if you're using 3/5 LLC or less (50% or less for my board), you won't have this issue.

In other words, I have never gotten an offset overclock 100% stable using 4/5 or 5/5 LLC without overvolting for prime loads.

Also, getting an offset overclock stable with c3 and c6 enabled has huge power saving advantages in gaming and any other 1-3 thread loads. The highest voltage I can do it with my board is 1.34 prime volts (again with 0% LLC).

EDIT: I forgot to mention speedstep. Speedstep adds another dimension to the light-loading stability that I just don't bother with. I always disable it. (Using speedstep with offsets raises the voltage requirement for light loads.) I have a kill-a-watt for my system and I've never found a benefit using it. Several workloads are faster with it disabled anyhow, such as x264.

EDIT2: One last thing, lowering PLL kills offset overclocks because it also raises the voltage requirement for light loads. The higher the PLL, the less volts required for 1-thread loads. Again, if c3 and c6 is disabled, this is not an issue.

so this is how you trying to "educate" the public ??? ....LoL ,i will only say.."get of your high horse" sunny boy ,there is no clear formula but the basics are already posted and very simple (there is no two processors alike and more then one mobo )
EDIT; your post is just full of facepalm bro...lol
Edited by coolhandluke41 - 5/23/12 at 3:41pm
    
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post #682 of 3804
Uh, it boils down to this: An increase of LLC will widen the gap between idle and load voltage. Leaving LLC off (or low) and raising offset instead will shorten the gap between idle and load voltage. A shorter gap can help you avoid issues with C3/C6 and transient response.
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post #683 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke41 View Post

so this is how you trying to "educate" the public ??? ....LoL ,i will only say.."get of your high horse" sunny boy ,there is no clear formula but the basics are already posted and very simple (there is no two processors alike and more then one mobo )
EDIT; your post is just full of facepalm bro...lol

Why am I on a high horse? What is your problem?
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post #684 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

Uh, it boils down to this: An increase of LLC will widen the gap between idle and load voltage. Leaving LLC off (or low) and raising offset instead will shorten the gap between idle and load voltage. A shorter gap can help you avoid issues with C3/C6 and transient response.
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post #685 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke41 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

Uh, it boils down to this: An increase of LLC will widen the gap between idle and load voltage. Leaving LLC off (or low) and raising offset instead will shorten the gap between idle and load voltage. A shorter gap can help you avoid issues with C3/C6 and transient response.
thumb.gif

Well, Luke isn't that basically what Iketh posted?
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post #686 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

Uh, it boils down to this: An increase of LLC will widen the gap between idle and load voltage. Leaving LLC off (or low) and raising offset instead will shorten the gap between idle and load voltage. A shorter gap can help you avoid issues with C3/C6 and transient response.

Yes, and increasing LLC widens the gap between 8-thread prime load and most other 8-thread loads. It also increases the gap between 8-thread prime load and 1-thread loads. These two factors are what gives everyone problems with their offset overclocks.
Edited by Iketh - 5/23/12 at 3:52pm
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post #687 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke41 View Post

so this is how you trying to "educate" the public ??? ....LoL ,i will only say.."get of your high horse" sunny boy ,there is no clear formula but the basics are already posted and very simple (there is no two processors alike and more then one mobo )
EDIT; your post is just full of facepalm bro...lol

Why would you post that and run? Don't be a coward...
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post #688 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke41 View Post

thumb.gif

i know this, this is the reason of why i posted what i posted.

lets assume HIGH LLC so there is a large gap
so because the gap is so wide the volts might not be enough in the middle, so your cpu stalls and offset needs to be raise a lot compared to constant for high OC
verdict: high offset needed because mid load / single threaded voltage requirement. so under load: higher temps because of more volts might raise your peak volts higher than 1.35v ***

lets assume a LOW LLC so there is a small gap
because of the small gap, idle volts are higher than with high LLC (~1.08v) and then your high side will be 1.3v+ because of the small LLC there is droop, under large load the cpu will droop back to 1.15v which might starve your cpu
verdict: high offset required because load voltage will droop a lot, and voltage peaks might be higher than 1.35v ***

lets assume a MID LLC so mid gap
there is SOME droop you will have to raise your offset so max voltage is much higher than at constant voltage and the cpu stalls when the voltage doesn't ramp up small loads or switching cpus.... so both the negatives of high and low LLC when on HIGH OC.

in the end, no advantage when having a high OC...
AGREED this is GREAT if on stock or very small OC, since 3.9ghz is stable at 0.9v which is very close to the 0.75v min that can occurs with offset and high llc and but load doesn't matter.
but even on my first post, I said Offset is just not worth it if you have a high OC I did not say "any OC"

*** intel recommends 1.35v as highest voltage put through an IB cpu without exotic cooling.

*Edited for conciseness
Edited by bebimbap - 5/23/12 at 4:36pm
post #689 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iketh View Post

Why would you post that and run? Don't be a coward...
who is running ..your post is just your opinion and full of holes the size of your empty ( insert here) ,there is no point arguing with you ,if the settings and the way you running your OC works for you that's all that matters but to state that everyone is full of it and you know more than anyone here is just immature to say the list ,you can read the thread linked in my sig and if you disagree with something you are more than welcome to post there and i will reply if you have something worth arguing/sharing thumb.gif
    
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post #690 of 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke41 View Post

who is running ..your post is just your opinion and full of holes the size of your empty ( insert here) ,there is no point arguing with you ,if the settings and the way you running your OC works for you that's all that matters but to state that everyone is full of it and you know more than anyone here is just immature to say the list ,you can read the thread linked in my sig and if you disagree with something you are more than welcome to post there and i will reply if you have something worth arguing/sharing thumb.gif

And this is your opinion. I am all for a debate, but a debate is not what you're bringing to the table. You've contributed nothing at all.
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