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post #911 of 3314
6/2/12 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

SeanPoe did a thorough testing on his, found similar results, actually C states hurt his read speed more than on mine in some cases.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1262255/effect-of-power-saving-features-on-ssd-speed
And another with Gigabyte mobo that apparently contacted Gigabyte about it, complaining of C states affecting SSD
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2192825
Quote:
As it turns out, this can be fixed. All it takes is disabling C3/C6 states on the Intel CPU.After speaking with with Gigabyte personally,they told me this is Intel's fault and tough luck lol? Seriously? All your bios work till the last couple and now its Intel's fault that your new bios cut the write speeds in half? Arghhhh.
So..my question is,would anyone have any guess as to why disabling C3/C6 states is fixing the issue?
Another with Gigabyte mobo posting about it
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/298896-30-asus-p8z68-gigabyte-z68x-ud3h
Quote:
Also as I mentioned on my gigabyte I disabled Cstates completely to get my solid state benching at correct speeds. I think (I'm pretty sure) I read (According to gigabyte) it was a problem with the sata spec and "not their fault"
Someone on Xtreme posting about it 1 year ago, first post.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?273312-What-is-going-on-with-SSD-in-DMA-mode&s=8378edb311d0b02cba86b742aafc1237
speaking of his Crucial M4 SSD in both modes...
Quote:
both are seriously affected by any CPU power-saving C-states (especially C1E, but also C3/6/7)
And another complaining about it:
http://gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=6724
Quote:
I got some interesting result when I tested SSD.
When I set CPU configuration C-State option
Enable
min:157.2MB/S
max:181.5MB/S
Disable:
min:225.3MB/S
max:240.8MB/S
Another person found same issue with C states on his
Quote:
What are these state supports? Why does disabling them enhance SSD drive performance/CPU/Graphics performance?
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?93081-C1-C3-C6-State-Support-Disabled-in-BIOS-Ultra-SSD-Performance
Toms articles first wrote about it back in 2009 and several threads across different forums of people confirming same back then.
toms articles is here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-hdd-power,2170-4.html
their conclusion:
Quote:
However, our findings are significant, as they can affect users who may not even know they are running an SSD with the brakes on. In short: really fast SSDs that can deliver 200 MB/s or even more of throughput become limited by CPU performance due to power saving mechanisms—or more precisely, they are bottlenecked by a limited availability of CPU time. This became obvious by switching the various power saving options on and off. We found that the sophisticated power saving mechanisms—such as the Active State Power Management for PCI Express, or the deeper C states that switch off entire functional units within the CPU at a transistor level—have a noticeable impact on the performance of our X25-E flash SSD. Obviously, the latency added by utilizing the more complex power saving features is significant enough to have to wait for the system to pick up data.
Had posted these once, but here is mine with a 40% decrease in 4K random write speed, and 10-25% decrease in random read speed. And yes with GB UD5H, ie in my sig.
Test 1) 4.7ghz, C states OFF, Vcore fixed, LLC turbo.
4700_Coff_manualvcore.jpg 389k .jpg file
Test 2) 4.7ghz, C states enabled, dynamic vcore, LLC standard/lowest setting
4700_dynamicOC_C_enabled.jpg 375k .jpg file
Test 3) 4.7ghz, C states AUTO, dynamic vcore, LLC standard/lowest setting.
4700_dynamOC_C_AUT0_gb.jpg 372k .jpg file
Yeah. I'm not arguing with you, just telling you what I saw. Posting all those quotes isn't going to change what I saw with my board. :shrug:
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post #912 of 3314
6/2/12 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

Degradation will occur primarily at load, so load vcore more important.
The downside of enabling C states is SSD performance is significantly decreased. Write speed on mine is decreased 40%, read speed decreased 15%. Those are benchmarks, but takes me 30% longer to install a program.
The other downside is you have more variables in to play when overclocking, and your dependent on mobo ramping up vcore appropriately at low and high loads to maintain stability. So more things to test then just under full load.
Nothing wrong with using it, but might as well list the disadvantages along with any advantages.

I've tested an Intel 510 SSD extensively with my Asus Z77 board.

C3/C6 do affect SSD performance.

With C3/C6 ENABLED, performance decreases, mostly in the 4k read areas.

With C3/C6 on AUTO (which decreases my vcore on idle), SSD performance is increased.

With C3/C6 DISABLED, SSD performance is about the same or a tiny bit better than C3/C6 on Auto.

So for Asus boards with Intel based SSD (not sure about SF based Intel SSD, haven't tested it yet), C3/C6 disabled or auto = best SSD performance.

But C3/C6 enabled = bad SSD performance.
Edited by christpunchers - 6/2/12 at 9:55am
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post #913 of 3314
6/2/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

PowerK, excessive heat will crash Prime or cause errors. Did you check the peak core temps?
Temps are fine. smile.gif (85~90C)

No, more heat means additional power requirement. The cooler your chip is, the more stable it's going to be at it's very minimum Vcore, and every little bit counts.

So what I meant was: check your max temps now compared to where they were while you were previously stable.
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post #914 of 3314
6/2/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandrix View Post

I did not find that (worse SSD performance) to be true for me. Leaving C states on Auto gave the best results with AS SSD. I tested this several times a while back out of curiousity. Which is really strange, you're running the UD5H board too, right?
At first I thought maybe it's different between different board brands, but now I don't know what to think. I have 2 UD5H boards, I didn't test this on both, but it was true on one of them.

Yes, I've found that leaving C3/C6 on auto gives my SSD the best performance it can get. But for some reason, putting C3/C6 on enabled gives it poorer performance. I guess auto and enabled are not the same thing, even though auto does change the vcore dynamically.
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post #915 of 3314
6/2/12 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post

Thank for sharing your experience and insight. Greatly appreciated! smile.gif
My main PC is currently running the Prime95 v27.7 in custom blend mode. I set it up according to your instruction. (screenshot below) (I'm currently posting this from my second PC).
iipNRIkaOycB.PNG
However, 3770K's temps are about 10C lower than In-Place Large FFT (Maximum heat, power consumption) and/or small FFT option. For some reason, it doesn't seem to stress the CPU as much as the default second option.

Default second option? You mean regular blend?

Blend mode will test for all FFTs (it goes back and forth between large and small FFT). So the temperature will change every 15 minutes or so.

I ran custom blend using about 13500 memory size. Haven't really tweaked my startup apps but many hours into a custom blend run I'd see that my "free" memory, as according to task manager, is no more than 300-400mb. So just be sure that you're leaving enough ram for Windows.
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post #916 of 3314
6/2/12 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

You can only raise the bus/bclk on these very little and maintain stability. people using ln2 modded bios etc squeezing out last few mhz raise the bclk.
Best thing to do is test with AS SSD benchmark for C states and power states on your setup. Reason is, although most I have seen that tested do best with C states disabled, there are a few that stated worked best on auto. Since auto tests differently than enabled or disabled on some mobos, kind of makes you wonder what auto is doing differently. For example, there is one ASUS mobo manual (one specific mobo not all ASUS) that apparently says to put C states neither on enabled or disabled, but on auto and one person confirmed auto was best setting for that mobo. Others with different ASUS mobo, better scores with disabled.
And mandrix with same mobo, but different SSD says his on Auto works better. No question on my UD5h, auto kills SSD performance as does enabled, so I keep disabled.
Regarding EIST and other power saving, few have reported decreased, some not so much. I didnt test EIST on mine. Again would have to test with your particular setup.

Maybe different SSD on the very same board will react to C3/C6 on auto, disabled, or enabled differently?

It is true that Auto works well. It's pretty much the same as putting C3/C6 on disabled. But disabled seems to be just a hair better, but not by much (i.e. a score of "9.75" vs "10.00").
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post #917 of 3314
6/2/12 at 10:31am
If anyone was wondering what kind of differences reseating a heatsink can do

The one on the left I just reseated and ran 20x run throughs of "very high" IBT that's why it's only 27 minutes of run time.
Max core temps are 67-73c using the "put on with finger and spread out smallest amount possible" method

The one on the right was the before pic a 19+ hour prime 27.7 run on standard blend, apparently seated wrong or too much TIM
max core temps are 81-86c using the "3mm dot in the center" and put on the HSF method.


594

Even my IBT "speed" is faster with the 13-14c difference in temps.

edit for clarification and spelling
Edited by bebimbap - 6/2/12 at 10:38am
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post #918 of 3314
6/2/12 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebimbap View Post

If anyone was wondering what kind of differences reseating a heatsink can do
The one on the left I just reseated and ran 20x run throughs of "very high" IBT that's why it's only 27 minutes of run time.
Max core temps are 67-73c using the "put on with finger and spread out smallest amount possible" method
The one on the right was the before pic a 19+ hour prime 27.7 run on standard blend, apparently seated wrong or too much TIM
max core temps are 81-86c using the "3mm dot in the center" and put on the HSF method.
594
Even my IBT "speed" is faster with the 13-14c difference in temps.
edit for clarification and spelling

Nice results dude Im happy for you. However.... I had the exact opposite. I tried re-seating my cooler and using that method and it wasn't cooling at all and It went up to 105 and throttled it's self. I am getting better results with the dot in the center method maybe its just a matter of which HS??
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post #919 of 3314
6/2/12 at 10:44am
Either that or i blew out my temp sensors and they are just giving messed up numbers lol.
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post #920 of 3314
6/2/12 at 11:03am
i doubt u blew up your temp sensors, I just know my chip did not like the finger applied paste @ all. I used 0 on the cooler and just smeared it very thin as straight as I could with my fingers. was a total no go lol.
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