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Logitech partners with CJentus (starcraft team) - Page 2

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susiria View Post

Bring back the Mini Optical!

Bring back how? biggrin.gif Since you can still buy it cheap as hell biggrin.gif
The sensor is still quite good ;>

Bring back the Logitech G3 with avago 3090 sensor, that would be porn biggrin.gif
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

Most "pro gamers" know little to nothing about the mouse they're using, it's flaws, and where it stands in performance levels.
They usually pick their gear up from either sponsors or buying what they heard some fellow pro-gamer gets results using, which inevitably makes them play with outdated hardware most of the time.

Unfortunately that isn't true. The reason you see "pro gamers" using Steelseries and Razer gear is because 95% of them are forced by their sponsored team to use the hardware. The sponsor sends them the mice/kb/headset/pad they want and they use it.

The notion that "pro gamers" know nothing about hardware is a joke too, if anything the higher the skill of the player, the more likely they know a lot about mouse hardware. There's exceptions, but the pros know more than you think they do.
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealgillz View Post

Unfortunately that isn't true. The reason you see "pro gamers" using Steelseries and Razer gear is because 95% of them are forced by their sponsored team to use the hardware. The sponsor sends them the mice/kb/headset/pad they want and they use it.
The notion that "pro gamers" know nothing about hardware is a joke too, if anything the higher the skill of the player, the more likely they know a lot about mouse hardware. There's exceptions, but the pros know more than you think they do.

Yes and no.
Ask like any korean, or non korean for that matter SC2/bw progamer about prediction, sensor acceleration and they will go huh biggrin.gif

Abit more knowledge among quake and cs 1.6 progamers however.
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealgillz View Post

Unfortunately that isn't true. The reason you see "pro gamers" using Steelseries and Razer gear is because 95% of them are forced by their sponsored team to use the hardware. The sponsor sends them the mice/kb/headset/pad they want and they use it.
The notion that "pro gamers" know nothing about hardware is a joke too, if anything the higher the skill of the player, the more likely they know a lot about mouse hardware. there's exceptions, but the pros know more than you think they do.

Isn't common. Those with hardware (and or game engine) knowledge do exist, but were talking about a small niche group of individuals.

When it comes to the majority or "average" DeMS is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

Most "pro gamers" know little to nothing about the mouse they're using, it's flaws, and where it stands in performance levels.
They usually pick their gear up from either sponsors or buying what they heard some fellow pro-gamer gets results using, which inevitably makes them play with outdated hardware most of the time.
I very much doubt that SpawN has a master degree on electronics, computer science and/or ergonomic design, his input must've been more of an alpha-beta tester, regarding things a "pro gamer" would notice, like shape, button position, stiffness, LoD, tracking, etc. I am highly exceptical that he would've had any voice into getting the A3090 sensor into the AM, but I would rather "fault" Avago for that, as they were to discontinue the model Zowie used before : A3060.
Also, the fact that a product has a "pro gamer" name stamped on it or that they recommend it doesn't mean it's any good.
A3090 is one of the most expensive optical sensors at the moment, just like the cheapest Avago offer for gaming products (20-pin arch) was A3060 before it was announced to be discontinued (which afaik it should be soon). It is still much cheaper than the laser offering of A9500.
The price of the sensor should be around 10% of the total consumer price of the mouse or less. Some companies do have custom packages that might be more expensive (higher initial expense, gives returns after some time), and some cheap mice might have good sensors on them that might push the percentage up.
Mouse as in shell / ergonomics , yes.
Sensor wise you can make very objective tests over which sensor is best.
Razer Mamba is a great mouse, and the sensor, apart from the Z-Axis bug is almost flawless - shame Razer had to introduce dynamic DPI on the MCU, right?

Avago still states A3060 is active. It could be that they plan to discontinue it, but I currently see the eVo as an easy marketing push or simple change until otherwise notified via site.

A9500/9800 is an all in one solution. VCSEL is onboard and there is no need for a clip to hold the LED. A3090 is cheaper, but I don't think the 9500 is all that more expensive after considering other factors. More bang for buck, but that acceleration is a turn off for many "informed" gamers seeking linear tracking.

Agreed. sensor quality or what "you" required as a gamer is very objective. I personally don't agree with zowies hardware choices, but my opinion is insignificant if you enjoy the mouse. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by viowastaken View Post

I  don't know enough about said sensors to make an educated comment, but as I understand the g400 sensor/firmware is  currently working very well. 
Judging by the price of the g400 the sensor isn't too expensive and could potentially be replicated in a different ambidextrous shell.

Let's just say that the Sensor architecture used in the G100 is weaker than most initial cmos based sensors from early 2000s.

The sensor architecture used in the G400 has been around and updated since the early days of "gaming mice" IE: MX300/310/500/510/518/G1/G3/G5/G7

Logitech is making a lot of silly choices these days considering they have the most "pull" in this industry.
Edited by Skylit - 4/25/12 at 11:26am
post #15 of 17
[EDIT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Avago still states A3060 is active. It could be that they plan to discontinue it, but I currently see the eVo as an easy marketing push or simple change until otherwise notified via site.

It was their reason to switch to the A3090. Also A4Tech has focused on the PixArt sensors after using the A3060 in like... Forever. It all points to that direction smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

A9500/9800 is an all in one solution. VCSEL is onboard and there is no need for a clip to hold the LED. A3090 is cheaper, but I don't think the 9500 is all that more expensive after considering other factors. More bang for buck, but that acceleration is a turn off for many "informed" gamers seeking linear tracking.

As far as I have found while reading bst's thoughts on ESR, A9500 is a bit more expensive than A3090 package. Then, adding volume, it becomes a big difference smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Agreed. sensor quality or what "you" required as a gamer is very objective. I personally don't agree with zowies hardware choices, but my opinion is insignificant if you enjoy the mouse. smile.gif

Yeah, if it works for "you", it's good for "you", but it doesn't mean it's objectively best smile.gif

[/EDIT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

The sensor architecture used in the G400 has been around and updated since the early days of "gaming mice" IE: MX300/310/500/510/518/G1/G3/G5/G7

I thought G3/G5/G7 used a mix of the arch and paved the way for VCSEL laser sensors, as they are laser themselves and use a VCSEL component - albeit not integrated into the SoC -, so I would consider them to be closer to the A9500 branch than to the old 20-pin optical arch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Logitech is making a lot of silly choices these days considering they have the most "pull" in this industry.

Huge company that has lots of resources, but for some reason they still are willing to remain on middle grounds in terms of innovation and have an image of "that company that makes average-looking and not too high-performing products" because they can't decide whether to push for cheap mice market or full enthusiast one.

One good thing about Logitech, though, is they usually have a product placed on the sweet spot of price vs performance, which is why they are so strong still.
Edited by DeMS - 4/25/12 at 2:34pm
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift Castiel View Post

My problem with that is that the best mouse in the world is completely subjective

Shape and used materials yes, but sensors are something you can rate objectively.
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post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

[EDIT]
It was their reason to switch to the A3090. Also A4Tech has focused on the PixArt sensors after using the A3060 in like... Forever. It all points to that direction smile.gif

Yeah, if it works for "you", it's good for "you", but it doesn't mean it's objectively best smile.gif

[/EDIT]

I thought G3/G5/G7 used a mix of the arch and paved the way for VCSEL laser sensors, as they are laser themselves and use a VCSEL component - albeit not integrated into the SoC -, so I would consider them to be closer to the A9500 branch than to the old 20-pin optical arch.

A4tech adapted pixart awhile ago. smile.gif I'll find out one way or another. tongue.gif

I meant subjective. oopsies biggrin.gif

You're right. Datasheet indicates a bit of a layout change.
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