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[TPU] Ivy Bridge Temperatures Could Be Linked To TIM Inside Integrated Heatspreader: Report - Page 3  

post #21 of 387
This is why people like me wait for upcoming steppings.
post #22 of 387
Dies aren't as fragile as some make them out to be. As long as you are careful to lower the heatsink/water block down and tighten it evenly the chances of chipping, scratching, or cracking the die are pretty low.

Still migth not be a bad idea to make a shim, or sand through the IHS (instead of cutting it off) to leave the edge as a shim. This way you physically can't tighten it down on to the die at an angle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenthos View Post

This is why people like me wait for upcoming steppings.

Hopefully Intel will move back to solder.
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post #23 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac73 View Post

I'm waiting on official numbers from Intel, but Sin made a comment on where at the same high voltages SB degraded much faster than IB and his IB still hasn't degraded.
I think this new process, especially with all the revisions Intel has done with it, is much more resilient than older models. I wonder if 80-80c is the new 70c on SB

There's a Intel overclock warranty, so you don't have to be afraid of higher temps.
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post #24 of 387
^^^ 20 bucks, can't go wrong with the Performance Tuning Plan thumb.gif
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post #25 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by novemberEcho View Post

BY careful do you mean really careful or just don't do something silly?
I guess this could actually turn out to be a bit of a boon for non-pro enthusiast overclockers.
Cheers
Zane

Up until about 2002 or so no CPUs no AMD CPUs had heatspreaders, not sure when Intel started using them. It's not a problem if you can mount it securely the first time. Personally the difference between using a heatspreader and not using one has never been enough for me to remove it, but if Ivy is truly having problems because of it, then it may be worth it for some.
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post #26 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenthos View Post

This is why people like me wait for upcoming steppings.

Yep, like the Q6600 G0.
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post #27 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillychuck View Post

Quote:
In comparison, Intel used flux-less solder to bind the IHS to the core on previous-generation Sandy Bridge Core processors.
That doesn't make sense to me, I could see soldering the IHS to the substrate the chip is mounted to, but how do you solder the IC case to metal?
Maybe they used a hardening TIM before?

Look up fluxless solder. It's a technique that's quite a bit different than your standard soldering. I'm not an EE major, so I can't give you a good technical explanation, but I'll do my best.

Fluxless solder was an idea that seems to really have started picking up steam as an EE technique around 2005/2006 based on the influx of IEEE papers on it explaining the fundamentals around that time. In the most simplistic of terms, fluxless soldering is a process by which a solder based TIM can be bonded die to heat spreader or die to heatsink. It's done by melting solder layers between the two locally by an exothermic reaction at room temperature, but confining the heat to the interface area between the die and IHS or sink. It's a dry, fluxless process that makes it possible to solder together increasingly small components.

There may be more methods now, but the two main ways of doing it were by removing the oxidation layer with chemicals or RF plasma (microwave plasma) or by placing the soldering materials in a non-oxidizing environment and, immediately following the soldering process, coating the solder in some sort of barrier to prevent oxidation. By removing the oxidation, they dramatically lower the melting point of the solder, allowing a flow at a lower temp. Oxidized metals have a higher melting point than the pure, unoxidized metals, so removing the oxidizing elements are necessary to drop the melting point and to get better heat transfer between the die and IHS or sink. One of the more popular non-oxidizing environment soldering techniques seems to be an argon-atom sputter technique that I'm not good enough in chemistry to understand or explain (read more here). Another newer way using the chemical removal of oxidation layers is placing chemically reactive multilayer foils between the two surfaces you want to bond, allowing you to flow the solder at room temperature. This is a great technique since the higher temps are incredibly localized, reducing heat stress on surrounding areas.

Sources for my explanation:
Rodgers, Peter, Valérie Eveloy, Emil Rahim, & David Morgan (2006). "Thermal Performance and Reliability of Thermal Interface Materials: A Review". 7th. Int. Conf. on Thermal, Mechanical and Multiphysics Simulation and Experiments in Micro-Electronics and Micro-Systems.

Lee, Chin C. and Jongsung Kim (2005). "Fundamentals of fluxless soldering technology". Advanced Packaging Materials: Processes, Properties and Interfaces, 2005. Proceedings. International Symposium on.

Nishikawa, Toru, Masahito Ijuin, & Ryohei Satoh (1994). "Fluxless soldering process technology". Electronic Components and Technology Conference. Proceedings., 44th.

Subramanian, J.S., P. Rodgers, J. Newson, J., T. Rude, Z. He, E. Besnoin, T.P. Weihs, V. Eveloy, & M. Pecht (2005). "Room temperature soldering of microelectronic components for enhanced thermal performance". Thermal, Mechanical and Multi-Physics Simulation and Experiments in Micro-Electronics and Micro-Systems, 2005. EuroSimE 2005. Proceedings of the 6th International Conference on

There are also a few you can take a look at online:
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/purl.cover.jsp?purl=/5199601-eRo5kv/5199601.PDF
http://www.calce.umd.edu/articles/openart/Page_2_Room_Temperature.pdf

Edit:

Based on what Blameless said about Indium, they should probably using a chemical fluxless soldering process.

And I forgot to add, fluxless solder can be a mixture of gold and tin or tin and lead. So, in the long run, using a gold/tin composite fluxless solder would not only be more expensive based on material cost, but also when it comes to application method.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivymaxwell View Post

*** why did they use thermal paste!

Far cheaper than fluxless soldering. If they're doing something like this, it's likely a cost decision one. That or they saw it had really good overclocking potential with a solder TIM and decided that it wouldn't make fiscal sense for their next generation chips if they could overclock to a point that they might be able to compete with new next gen chips.
Edited by nubbinator - 4/26/12 at 2:10am
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post #28 of 387
I've removed the IHS before on an AMD 3700, it's not hard. The only issue was that it was very hard to find a cooler that could compensate for the reduce "ride" height of the Die, compared to Die + IHS.
    
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post #29 of 387
Just like AMD GPUs? Nvidia Started doing the same thing too.
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post #30 of 387
Given this information, I wonder if the engineering samples used TIM as a cost saving measure (presumably they sent out several engineering samples). I'm wondering if retail versions will use the SB solder method or if they will continue to use TIM. I can't believe that the cost difference between TIM and solder is substantial enough to favor TIM over solder. We will really find out when IB retail chips are out in the wild with real users and OC'ers testing them. I wouldn't be surprised to see these temperature issues irrelevant in a few weeks time. Time will tell I suppose.
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