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[TPU] Ivy Bridge Temperatures Could Be Linked To TIM Inside Integrated Heatspreader: Report - Page 7  

post #61 of 387
And this is why I said to wait for Ivy to mature.... Glad i got SB-E smile.gif
post #62 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca.j.stokes View Post

This really rustles my jimmies.

My goal tomorrow is to use this in at least 5 conversations.


On a more serious note... is that ceramic paste??? madsmiley.png
     
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post #63 of 387
I'm spreading this all over Intel's facebook. With 10 million fans, some will listen.
    
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post #64 of 387
I wonder what kind of paste is that. Is that silicone based thermal paste ? Isn't that the cheapest type of thermal past you can get ? Or is it ceramic ? Isn't that cheap too ?

Also, thermal paste where you normally don't go to replace it, doesn't that mean it will degrade over the years, making the temperatures even worse ? I mean, for someone buying a low end CPU with a lower TDP maybe it's an acceptable cost saving policy, but for somone buying a high performance quad core ?

If Intel did this to save money and / or to limit the OC potential in order to protect SB-E, then I would be hugely disappointed.
 
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post #65 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evtron View Post

Interesting. Someone needs to test this before people start shelling out mad money this upcoming Monday!
EDIT: They say in the article that they believe this might just be for engineering samples only and that retail units could ship with flux-less solder like in SB. Guess we'll see.

We'll find out this Sunday. I'll find it out myself. I already got Z77 mobo ready.
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post #66 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Up until about 2002 or so no CPUs no AMD CPUs had heatspreaders, not sure when Intel started using them. It's not a problem if you can mount it securely the first time. Personally the difference between using a heatspreader and not using one has never been enough for me to remove it, but if Ivy is truly having problems because of it, then it may be worth it for some.

The K6 had an IHS, and Slot A Athlons had a cover that was essentially an IHS.

Socket A chips didn't have IHSes.

For Intel Socket 370 was the desktop socket where they had no heatspreader.

Both companies, with a few exceptions, leave the heatspreaders off mobile parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleduck View Post

People are saying that we could just put the cooler straight on the die, but couldn't we just put new, better TIM on the die and slap the IHS back on? Wouldn't that reduce risk of cracking/chipping the die?

This would be just as much work, for much less benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis158 View Post

all of the heatsinks for the pre IHS era also attached straight to the plastic processor socket. the first intel processor to come standard was the P4 (some early p2 models had them as well) which was because it was a through-motherboard design that put alot more pressure on the CPU to maximize heat conductivity

Not entirely true.

There were many 3rd party heatsinks that mounted through the board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

I wonder what kind of paste is that. Is that silicone based thermal paste ? Isn't that the cheapest type of thermal past you can get ? Or is it ceramic ? Isn't that cheap too ?
Also, thermal paste where you normally don't go to replace it, doesn't that mean it will degrade over the years, making the temperatures even worse ? I mean, for someone buying a low end CPU with a lower TDP maybe it's an acceptable cost saving policy, but for somone buying a high performance quad core ?
If Intel did this to save money and / or to limit the OC potential in order to protect SB-E, then I would be hugely disappointed.

Most pastes use some kind of silicone oil to suspend the conductive filler, and many pastes also use ceramics. There is a huge variability in these compounds. Anyway, even the very best non-metalic TIMs are much lower thermal conductivity than solder is.

It looks like the same sort of stuff AMD and Intel used to use under their IHSes before they started using solder, and what NVIDIA used on their pre 600 series GTX cards.

Should last forever, unless you are submerging the chip in powerful solvents for extended periods of time.

It was almost certainly done to save money. Paste is much cheaper than indium solder, and a gold foil layer needed for good attachment to the bottom if the IHS. Even if they only save a few tens of cents per CPU, thats going to add up to tens of millions of dollars.

Obviously the CPUs work perfectly fine at rated speeds, and even with respectable OCs so what's the downside for Intel? An extra few degrees C isn't going to mean much of anything to the overwhelming majority of the market.
Edited by Blameless - 4/25/12 at 7:47pm
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post #67 of 387
Sure this makes sense for the lower end models, but for most of the users considering the high end quad cores, it makes no sense. The vast majority of people who buy these CPU's (excluding OEMs) would surely be happy to pay a marginal premium to ensure a cooler running CPU. I personally would buy a revision for an extra $10 with a soldered IHS, but I'm definitely holding off on my 2600K for now.
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post #68 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

The K6 had an IHS, and Slot A Athlons had a cover that was essentially an IHS.
Socket A chips didn't have IHSes.
For Intel Socket 370 was the desktop socket where they had no heatspreader.
Both companies, with a few exceptions, leave the heatspreaders off mobile parts.
This would be just as much work, for much less benefit.
Not entirely true.
There were many 3rd party heatsinks that mounted through the board.
Most pastes use some kind of silicone oil to suspend the conductive fille, and many pastes also use ceramics. There is a huge variability in these compounds. Anyway, even the very best non-metalic TIMs are much lower thermal conductivity than solder is.
It looks like the same sort of stuff AMD and Intel used to use under their IHSes before they started using solder, and what NVIDIA used on their pre 600 series GTX cards.
Should last forever, unless you are submerging the chip in powerful solvents for extended periods of time.
It was almost certainly done to save money. Paste is much cheaper than indium solder, and a gold foil layer needed for good attachment to the bottom if the IHS. Even if they only save a few tens of cents per CPU, thats going to add up to tens of millions of dollars.
Obviously the CPUs work perfectly fine at rated speeds, and even with respectable OCs so what's the downside for Intel? An extra few degrees C isn't going to mean much of anything to the overwhelming majority of the market.

Thanks! Rep+

As to the downside for Intel, it's basically a PR disaster. If they will be selling Core i7's 3770K with TIM between the die and the IHS, I doubt they will get good reputation amongst the people that have been buying and praising their CPUs since the Core 2 Duo days. The companies that make air and water based cooling solutions are not going to be too happy either, though that does not affect Intel directly.

I understand that Intel is pushing its graphics to people that probably won't even use it, except maybe for QuickSync, but the aim is to gain general recognition for their efforts and reap the benefits later, so their intent to save money is understandable, but many many users will prefer having a GPU-less 3770K and 3570K with solder between the die and the IHS or pay slightly more. I mean, after all, people willing to buy the Core i5 3570K and 3770K, the ones you can freely overclock, are willing to shell out a few extra dollars.

So, all in all, this doesn't make any sense. I ask again - could 22nm actually be that good (from LN2 we know it has the potential) that Intel was forced to protect SB-E by doing this cheap trick ?
Edited by tpi2007 - 4/25/12 at 7:51pm
 
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post #69 of 387
With out the IHS the chip runs sooooooooooo much cooler Getting VERY VERY good temps on my 45nm chip 2.6GHz 25C idle 45C under load

not bad for mobile chip
    
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post #70 of 387
IHS REMOVAL

This might be relevant to all of our interests, especially those of us jumping the gun this Sunday (myself included).
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